Cam angle sensor.

[Haydz]

hey well really at the moment my car is running but it does not run very well
so the question is
i have the plug on the loom for the cam angle sensor but there is no connector on the engine. when i bought the car i was informed that the engine had been changed with another one and im guessing that it was not the exact same engine.
this leads me to the problem

the car changes itself to limp home mode because it is not getting the signal from the cam angle sensor. and thus runs rough chew fuel etc.
the only way i can think of fixing this problem may be to install a computer that doesnt run with a cam angle sensor. does anyone else have any ideas or know what model i would be looking at

just so you know its a 94 vr berlina auto
thanks alot.
any help will be appreciated,

[hako]

I've read somewhere that if the cam angle sensor is unserviceable the ECU runs on a default figure....and not limp home mode and the result is a slight increase in fuel consumption. Maybe the car is going into LHM for some other reason.

[Haydz]

in limp home mode will i get like a miss every 3 cycles when idling and also i have checked the computer for codes and i get a code 48 cam angle sensor-missing or intermittent.

[hako]

In LHM the main effect will be transmission related with only 2nd and 3rd gear being available....this is so that if something is wrong then not too much strain will be put on the car.
So...I'd say you're not in LHM and the miss every 3 cycles is due to the computer or ECU not being told by the cam angle sensor when to fire the injectors so it fires the injectors in a kind of 'backup' method.
What I'd do is write down the engine number, go to Holden and find what model the engine is from and then get a ECU from a wrecker....dunno the price but they rarely fail so should not be big dollars....or cheaper may be Ebay or a private person wrecking their car. But until you get the correct ECU you will have this problem. There may also be another problem as the VS (not sure about early VR) trans is also controlled by the ECU
but hopefully that doesn't apply to you.
Maybe post the number to this forum and someone can identify it.

[SweetWagon]

In LHM the main effect will be transmission related with only 2nd and 3rd gear being available....this is so that if something is wrong then not too much strain will be put on the car.
So...I'd say you're not in LHM and the miss every 3 cycles is due to the computer or ECU not being told by the cam angle sensor when to fire the injectors so it fires the injectors in a kind of 'backup' method.
What I'd do is write down the engine number, go to Holden and find what model the engine is from and then get a ECU from a wrecker....dunno the price but they rarely fail so should not be big dollars....or cheaper may be Ebay or a private person wrecking their car. But until you get the correct ECU you will have this problem. There may also be another problem as the VS (not sure about early VR) trans is also controlled by the ECU
but hopefully that doesn't apply to you.
Maybe post the number to this forum and someone can identify it.

VR also run electronic auto. Sounds possible someone has replaced the motor with something pre-vr (ie. no cam angle sensor) with the original loom and ECU.

[azkwazere]

Where is the thermostat on your engine?

aZk.

Edit: Ok, you have a SII engine, still could be from a VN or VP... Check engine serial with holden.

[Haydz]

im unsure of what you mean.have a look in the vr/vs my ride section and youc an see the pictures. there are some of the engine bay if this helps.

[hako]

im unsure of what you mean.have a look in the vr/vs my ride section and youc an see the pictures. there are some of the engine bay if this helps.

I think Azkwazere has looked at your engine and figured its a VN-VP series 2
which means that to run things properly you will need a ECU from a VN-VP auto.....but that throws another spanner in as your car should have a 4L60E transmission which is controlled by the ECU and this ECU must have the Cam Angle Sensor input.
So.....things that I'd do would be first check what transmission you have - it should have a ident on the bellhousing viewable from the passenger side. The first letter of the ID should be 4 (if yours is 94 build) which means it should be a 4L60E. But if its an earlier date then the trans is probably a 4L60 (not electronically controlled)
So - if the trans is 4L60E then fitting a VN-VP ECU will make the engine run OK but the trans will not operate correctly as it needs the VR ECU.
This is getting horribly complicated!
How about looking where the cam angle sensor goes - does it have a blanking plate where you could fit one?....I've heard that the front covers can be swapped so maybe thats another option.
But really the first thing is to establish exactly what you have - engine/trans/ECU.

[Haydz]

thanks hako. i will go out and find out what i have hell i might even give the guy i bought it off a call.
and see if he knows anything
should i call holden and find out what engine number it is.
i will pull off the left kick panel and tell you what ecu it is?
im not sure where i would find the trans info thanks for all your help guys

[Haydz]

well just come back in and the info i have is as follows.
vin:6h8vrl19hrl694138
engine no: vh1239726
and the computer just say 3.8ltr auto ecu

[Haydz]

also. i have thought about changing the front plate. but the cam has to have a magnet on it to tell the sensor where it is doesnt it ?
so this would mean i would need a new cam aswell.
any pictures of the exact location would be helpful but im pretty certain i have a blank there.

[hako]

Its located between the harmonic balancer and the waterpump - about midway and a bit to the left. There should be either a blanking plate there or a casting mark where it would be if they machined it out. Re the cam - maybe they all have the magnet as its cheaper production-wise otherwise the camshaft sprocket can be unbolted from the cam.

[Haydz]

it has a blank plate thing there but there is a hole in the plate.
so really to install a cam angle sensor. wouldn't cost all that much?

[hako]

it has a blank plate thing there but there is a hole in the plate.
so really to install a cam angle sensor. wouldn't cost all that much?

Thats as long as the sensor fits in the hole and there is a magnet on the cam sprocket. When you say "blank plate" does that mean the plate can be removed?

[Cheap6]

If you search some of the US sites/forums on other cars that use the Buick V6, you can find info. on how to replace the cam sensor magnet on/in the cam pulley.
(It is more of a problem on earlier cars).

Hako, you may be correct, if the engine is from a late VP, it's possible that provision for the magnet in the cam gear will be present, as often in preparation for a model change, small part differences are made and fitted to the previous model late in the build. (It helps stagger the changes with the new model).

If the hole is there, maybe the engine is VR and the sensor has not been connected for some reason.

[Haydz]

well i have the small hole. i will check it out tomorrow when its daylight again. like i have the one for the screw.
and also i called my local holden and they could not track the engine number.
thanks again guys

[azkwazere]

Ring RTA or vicroads or whatever you have and ask them if the engine has ever been changed.... I cant tell the differnece between a VR engine and a VP engine from the outside... does your chassis plates make reference to the engine?

aZk.

[Haydz]

will give them a call when i get home this arvo. but the guy said he had changed it with the rta. should i attempt to get the previous engine number? or just asking if it has been changed>?

[hako]

Why don't you go to a wrecker and ask can you look at the front of a V6 engine - have a good look at where the cam angle sensor fits and decide whether one will fit your current engine. If it looks like it will fit either grab one from the wreckers or buy a new one and fit it - wreckers will only want $20 or so for it so its a cheap way.
If the timing cover does have the hole machined for the sensor then its an even bet that the magnet is on the chain sprocket.....
The engine number or what car it came from is really just a side issue as without the sensor the car will always have that problem.....fit the sensor and the ECU gets its signal and hopefully all will be well. You may also find that the RTA will want you to pay for any information!

[Haydz]

heres some pictures of what i have

[SweetWagon]

Hmmm maybe some other people with VR's could post the same pic.. that should tell alot, My SI VN has the same hole but doesnt appear threaded as yours looks? Although it appears too far from the cam sprocket... either way that hole has to blocked off or oil would leak from it, so something tells me its is a VN/VP S2 motor.

Here is a pic of mine.



On another note that radius rod bush looks rooted.

[Haydz]

hmm what is a radius rod bush. well it doesnt leak oil from that hole so maybe its the same as yours. but just set up differently. i think i can get a vp computer quite easily

[Haydz]

i just called the guy in which i bought the car and he is quite sure the engine was from a vp. just wondering could not having the cam angle sensor be making it have a miss like every 30 odd seconds because that is really what im trying to justify through all this.
surprisingly the guy was really good about it considering i bought the car 4 months ago. he said he would have a look and see if he had a spare oxygen sensor and we could try that.
and also said he would speak to his dad as he was the one doing the mechanical work to it. being a mechanic.
well if anyone knows why i might be having this problem help would be appreciated. thanks

[SweetWagon]

hmm what is a radius rod bush. well it doesnt leak oil from that hole so maybe its the same as yours. but just set up differently. i think i can get a vp computer quite easily

Radius rod bush



Well if the motor is from a VP then theres your answer.. You cant use a VP ECU as it doesnt have provsions for your electronic box.
You need to find a way to put a cam sensor in or get a VR motor. You could try o2 sensor but i'd be focusing on cam sensor as thats what the faults codes are for.

[jas98]

with ya radious rod bush i was thinking tha same as vn6pwr however when i looked at it the second time it looks as if the washer has been put on back to front