5L: black filthy sludge coating valve springs, rockers etc...

[savage1987]

Took my oil filler cap off and shone a torch around there just a minute ago, everything looked grimy and black. I thought it might be just old age but no, I wiped a bit with my finger and it came away, a good couple of mm deep on the rocker cover itself. This can't be healthy. What do I do about it??

Couple of ideas I've had include

Take everything apart up there and clean it all up - not really sure what I'm doing there though..
Run a healthy dose of that engine flush stuff.. I never do this before oil changes, should I??


What do I do about this issue?? Nothing seems wrong with the car, it pulled more power than stockers usually do and has been regularly serviced since I've owned it..

In case it matters, it's got 290,000km on the clock.

All advice appreciated
Sam

[88GreenVN]

I ran engine flush throu a few times and got my finger slapped by some JC members for doing so.

I just took all the rocker covers off and cleaned them. All the valves had been cleaned up by the engine flush by this time. Changed the oil every 1000kms for the first 6 months or so. The oil turned black with in days after each change - but has settled down now after 5 oil changes. My engine was very VERY grotty inside.

[VS_Pete_1]

Get a carbon clean (flush) $150-$200.
More likely a carbon build up.
I had a handful of **** in the sump which clogged the pickup.
All go now.
What oil you using?
5000k oil changes.

[savage1987]

I always change every 5000km. Valvoline XLD Premium.

Hmm so I have one person saying don't use engine flush and one saying I should...

Help!!

Also I really don't want to take the sump off - don't you have to lift the motor up for that??

[VS_Pete_1]

The flush I`m talking about is done by a machine they put **** in **** comes out talk to your mechanic about it .
Not a additive that you put in before oil change.
I didn`t say take the sump off I just told you what happened to my car carbon buildup.

[savage1987]

Thanks Pete
Yeah I know you didn't say I had to take the sump off, but I think I probably should .. in both cars.... After the number of km they've done there is probably a decent amount of goop in the bottom that really shouldn't be there

I'll have to speak to a mechanic about that engine flush you mentioned..

Still interested in other suggestions though

[VS_Pete_1]

All good mate. Other suggestions would be good mate.
I`ll post the pic of the pickup if I have still got it.

[hako]

At 290,000km you'd expect the insides to look a bit crappy....but so what - all the grime and carbon deposits are not doing any harm.....and they won't if you don't put an engine flush thru it. Thats like putting a dose of salts through yourself.
My 2 cents worth says just leave it alone and don't open a can of worms.

[savage1987]

Hmm. That's always an option, just wait until I decide to put a cam in or otherwise rebuild the heads... might be in the next couple of years.


So this gunk deposit doesn't definitely mean the car's been neglected at some point in history?? It can just be from old age?

Sam

[jazzawithvg38]

it doesnt matter how often you service the vechile if the person before has neglected to. blackness due to old oil and no amounts of oil channg going to fix it. however with that many km i wouldnt worrry too much as there are probally others things that require attention. just keep driving till it stops then fix it all at once.

[greenfoam]

The sludge is cause by long periods of time whithout a oil change. My VP has/had more sludge than any other 5 litre I've seen, I'd say its gone at least 50,000ks without an oil change and just been toped up with cheap oil somewhere between 80,000ks (last service in the book) and 150,000 (when I got it). Mine was realllllly close to dying from a clogged pickup when I got it. My first ever trip to 5000 revs gave me a oil light. My plan was to just keep changing oil at 5000 ks and assume that in another 100,000 is would be clean . It didnt clean but the pickup and any high flow areas like that did. My boss used to tell me to run diesel grade oil in it and said that would make it sparkly clean inside but I worried that oil like that would dislodge too much crap at once and block the pickup. In the end I pulled the rocker covers and intake manifold off and spent the best part of 2 days with everything covered up removing and cleaning the top half of the engine by hand, it was a BIG job and I had a bucket and abit full of tissues and sludge to prove it and a few cans of carby cleaner too . The most interesting part of the story is that with a clean manifold my car isn't as fast as it was before. They only explaination I have is that the near on 1cm thick sludge under the manifold insulated it and also kept heat in the engine from the huge sludge deposits that were in the valley and made my car faster than it would have been with a clean engine. Sludge is definatly a small performance cheat and so long as it doesnt fall off it's no problem

[KRUPTD]

You can try using this type of oil it is a semi detergent that we use at work and is very good,Mobil XHP plus 15w 40,this oil will help clean those buildup deposits in your engine.You can use a diesel oil if you want like a mobil DELVAC 15w40 50/50 of each of these 2 and then run that oil for no more than 2000km then change the oil and filter and then run the XHP plus by itself and just keep using this oil,it is a good oil in cooler weather conditions but when summer comes around runn a 15w 50 or 20w 50 grade.When you change oils you tend to use/burn oil but this is common,so dont be scared if you use oil after the first 2 to 3 oil changes it will be fine.At the moment i am running Mobil XHP plus 15w 40 but when summer comes i will run a thicker grade of oil like a 15w 50.I also change my oil anf filter every 5000kms.Instead of using that crap engine flush use abit of DEXRON 3 ATF oil,just add about 500ml to the engine oil and do this about 500km before the next oil/filter change this also helps the breakdown of some sludge deposits.

We also have a carbon machine at work.Problems of carbon build up is from using bad fuels such as using just unleaded fuel or ethanol.Using premium fuel will prevent carbon build ups also getting regular oil services will help too.But all the carbon cleans we have done to customers cars there was a noticable different in fuel economy and a little performance/and engine running smoother.A carbon clean also cleans your injectors/fuel rail/intake plenum chamber/throttle body/back of the valves.I will be doing a carbon clean on my car soon once i get a new starter for it.

[savage1987]

The sludge is cause by long periods of time whithout a oil change.

****. Really wish I knew wtf to look for when I bought the car in the first place...

You can try using this type of oil it is a semi detergent that we use at work and is very good,Mobil XHP plus 15w 40,this oil will help clean those buildup deposits in your engine.You can use a diesel oil if you want like a mobil DELVAC 15w40 50/50 of each of these 2 and then run that oil for no more than 2000km then change the oil and filter and then run the XHP plus by itself and just keep using this oil,it is a good oil in cooler weather conditions but when summer comes around runn a 15w 50 or 20w 50 grade.When you change oils you tend to use/burn oil but this is common,so dont be scared if you use oil after the first 2 to 3 oil changes it will be fine.At the moment i am running Mobil XHP plus 15w 40 but when summer comes i will run a thicker grade of oil like a 15w 50.I also change my oil anf filter every 5000kms.Instead of using that crap engine flush use abit of DEXRON 3 ATF oil,just add about 500ml to the engine oil and do this about 500km before the next oil/filter change this also helps the breakdown of some sludge deposits.

We also have a carbon machine at work.Problems of carbon build up is from using bad fuels such as using just unleaded fuel or ethanol.Using premium fuel will prevent carbon build ups also getting regular oil services will help too.But all the carbon cleans we have done to customers cars there was a noticable different in fuel economy and a little performance/and engine running smoother.A carbon clean also cleans your injectors/fuel rail/intake plenum chamber/throttle body/back of the valves.I will be doing a carbon clean on my car soon once i get a new starter for it.

Thanks for that mate, lot of helpful info there. Still not sure if I really want to dislodge all that stuff and put it through the motor though, I'm leaning towards what greenfoam did and tearing the whole top apart. At least that way I shouldn't cause any problems by doing it!

Carbon cleaning sounds like it might be worthwhile... my car won't be running on normal unleaded any more - couple of days time I get my greenfoam-spec memcal can't wait!

Sam

[KRUPTD]

If you go down the road of removing the top end like the intake manifold to try to clean up things just be very careful not to drop any of the oil sludge into the sump,what will happen it will end up blocking up the pickup and your oil light will come on and you might even kill your engine.I would suggest what i had mentioned before about the oils.I have experienced this before at work with a S1 VN V6 i removed the intake to replace the lifters and what did i find???I found the worst even engine inside it was terrible the amount of sludge in it i scraped and spooned out.And once put back together i started it and then 5 mins later the engine light came on.So i drained the oil out and replaced it with a new filter and then roadtested it and then 5kms down the road the oil light started flickering so i quickly made it back to the workshop and had to remove the sump.Once i removed the sump i found the pickup blocked you couldnt even recognise it because of all the sluge on it,it was shocking.But once i had cleaned the sump and pickup,i slapt it back together and then put some new oil in it and now i think the car is sitting in the wrecking yard.But this porblem was caused due to lack of maintenace and cheap oil used.The only thing the car came in for was to fix a miss.The miss ended up being a collapsed lifter and i know why the lifter collapsed was due to lack of lubrication of oil.

[savage1987]

Thanks for the info mate, it's definitely an option for me!
Must confess though, having never taken a motor apart before I'd love to give it a shot... I'll probably get lazy and just run that Mobil XHP plus 50/50 mix you mentioned though

[VSIIBerlinaL67]

whats so bad about the oil flush stuff its only in the engine for 10 mins at idle speed

[88GreenVN]

whats so bad about the oil flush stuff its only in the engine for 10 mins at idle speed

Hmmm I'm with you on this one. Having done 5 lots of cleaning - add flush run engine at idle for 10 mins - dump oil and filter. The moment the oil light stays on when I start the car - I just change the oil now. Motor is still very clean.

So NOT changing the oil is what gives the build up of sludge in th engine

My engine now works very well with a greenfoam tune and revs to 5000rpm without fuss.

So if you use engine flush - you will need to change the oil many times before it's all cleaned up - maybe upto 5 times or more - and thats not cheap.

[savage1987]

Fair few different opinions coming up..

[vxcalais_01]

I have heard some of the most magnificent comments ever on this thread, from varnish and sludge causing no problems, to it even increasing or helping with performance !!!

Don't use a flush, unless you want it to die from a blocked gallery to overcleaning the seals and losing compression leaks etc.

Use an oil that has good cleaning properties with at lease CF diesel rating, Mobil Delvac S 15W40, Shell Helix Plus 15W-50, Nulon Diesel 15W-40 etc and change it twice in 5000k's. Keep and eye on it and make sure its turning black, that way you know its cleaning. Then after that, use the Shell Helix Ultra etc. What oil were you using ? Some oils you can run f0r 15-20000k's even more as Bradcad will explain without any sludge buildup at all. Remember, oils like Valvoline, and Penzzoil actually recommend changing every 5000k's on their websites. Penrite possibly 10,000. The others like Castrol are dishonest and just say use manufacturer recommendation which could mean 15,000 on a oil only designed for 5000.

[savage1987]

I've been using Valvoline XLD Premium 20W50, every 5000km. Any good? Hope so. Might have to try one of those oils you mentioned a bit more often, see if it makes a difference.

Sam

[vxcalais_01]

I've been using Valvoline XLD Premium 20W50, every 5000km. Any good? Hope so. Might have to try one of those oils you mentioned a bit more often, see if it makes a difference.

Sam

Hows your car looking these days ?

[savage1987]

Yeah not so bad, still a little grimy but it seems to be slowly going away with 5000km oil changes. I do country kms so I get plenty of oil changes in

Sam

[greenacc]

Agree with VXCalais ( he knows about oils - read his mega synthetic oil post recently)
We seem to be confusing a few of the issues > Carbon build up on valves,injectors etc is from cheap fuel. Sludge is from cheap oil and not enough changes. Don't think a carbon clean cleans up sludge tho does it ?
When oil goes black and gets saturated with crap it can't pick up any more crap so the crap builds up and causes sludge. Cheap filters add to the problem cause they don't filter the crap out and it keeps going round your engine causing wear, and eventually settles somewhere as sludge.
Moral of the story use good oil with detergent additives. Use good fuel with detergents, and change the oil when its goes black , don't go by what the bottle says.... 10000k's etc.
Try getting an oil company to pay for an engine rebuild.... no chance

[vxcalais_01]

agreed with greenacc hehe. I am not an oil specialist, i just read alot and ask alotta questions of the poeple who make it and use it hehe.

Its funny you mention country k's, your oil should actually be lasting a lil longer, engine always running at optimum, and boiling out condensation - think of taxis. What oil you running at the moment ?

[savage1987]

Valvoline XLD premium or plus, whichever I can find (usually XLD Plus now), 20W50. Ryco filter. Oil and filter get done every 5000km in both my cars even though they do country kms. Doing the oil changes myself mean they're always on time too

Sam