Car stalls while driving

[VS Omega]

Hi all,

Just trying to get some ideas about what could be causing my car to stall while driving. First some background:

One day after I finished work I went to start my car but the alarm was just going off softly (like a warning or something). OK fair enough I checked everything I could and still wouldn't start. Called the RACV and they said my battery was screwed, but my alternator was charging the battery fine.

Drove around for a while with the same battery until it happened again, so I borrowed my mums battery (Honda Accord 4 cylinder if that helps), though the connectors were too big for the battery so I stuck some screws in there and it worked. Yesterday (and once a few days ago) when I tried to start it, the engine would try to start but wouldn't do it. Just turning over. Eventually the thing started (on both occasions) and I decided screw this I'm finally getting a proper Commodore battery.

So back to what happened yesterday, the alarm was going off when I tried to start it so I put another screw in there to make contact better, again it was turning over but just wouldn't start! Finally (somehow) it started so I drove it down to the auto electrician. Stalled on the way there while in motion (four times total since the flat battery).

So I picked the car up today, he said the starter motor cable was loose so he tightened it up and put the new battery (600 cranking amps, whatever that means). He said it was fixed so I paid the man and drove it home. Half way home the car stalled! I had 1/4 of a tank left so thought it may be petrol (station was about 200m away) so got the car there and filled it to the top (put 42L in), then quickly drove it back there.

Told the guy about it and he took it for a drive, talked about it for a bit and he thinks it might be the fuel pump (since I bought the car it has been making like an electric noise). It's never done it since that time where the battery went flat.

I wonder, what are the chances it's the fuel pump being defective/not up to the task or the fact that there was only 42L of petrol left in the tank? Could cranking the car with a flat battery or a loose starter motor cable cause any extra strain or damage to the fuel pump?

The only difference (which was fitted after the battery was initially announced flat) is an aftermarket memcal - could this in any way cause the car to stall. I filled it up with 95RON over 1/4 tank last week and this time I filled it with 98RON.

ALL suggestions and comments welcome, I don't want to pay the $130 for a new pump + labour + lost petrol if that's not the problem.

Many thanks

[tonitrus]

I would suggest it is the crank angle sensor. It seems to be a very common problem in these models (has happened to me before, same things you describe) If you cant get your car to start try pouring some water over the sensor (located near the harmonic balancer, it is a little black plug) and I'm not sure why, but that seems to make it ALOT easier for the car to start.

[VS Omega]

Thanks I'll have to have a look at that - what are the chances it could just fail out of no where/relation to a flattened battery (I was running two amps back then, I think one was leaking power but not sure).

Just to add to my original post; Before, I went to start the car again and it was cranking really fast (never seen anything like it, must be the battery lol) but wouldn't turn over. I stopped, tried again but this time stabbed the accelerator and it started - but the next time I want to start it (to get it back home) it started first time.

[tonitrus]

Well when mine failed, it just failed randomly, there didn't seem to be a cause at all. Check out this link for a quick and easy way to check your error codes, it's what helped me diagnose my problem.

Checking error codes VR/VS (Revised)

Good luck!

[greenacc]

Random stalling would typically be either fuel related ie pump or blockage, or ignition like tonitrus said. if its not the CAS it could be the ignition module, or a bad connection. Could also be a dud memcal you put in , or its not plugged in properly.

[VS Omega]

With my mums battery (and the loose terminal connections) the engine light and battery light were both on, since the new battery they disappeared so havn't bothered to check - would the errors still be logged? (I have the USB ALDL cable).

Just another two thoughts;

1. My mums battery is flat enough now that her car won't start so I'll need to recharge it - this would have absolutely nothing to do with a loose starter motor would it? Potentially could it be the loose terminal connections?

2. I noticed this just lately, not sure if it's always done it or just recently but when I take my foot off the throttle quickly the revs drop immediately to as low (or possibly lower than) 1250RPM. Could it be this really quick drop in revs that could cause it to stall? I noticed the revs drop this low even while traveling 70km/h in 4th, as soon as the foot comes off the revs drop to ~1250 immediately. Is this typical behavior or could it be a sign of fuel pump/injectors/gearbox/anything else I can't think of?

Because of Christmas I probably won't be able to take the car to the mechanic until next year, just want to be certain before replacing something for nothing.

I'll also investigate the CAS, is there any definitive test to determine the condition?

Thanks again all

[mrhotdog]

With my mums battery (and the loose terminal connections) the engine light and battery light were both on, since the new battery they disappeared so havn't bothered to check - would the errors still be logged? (I have the USB ALDL cable).

Just another two thoughts;

1. My mums battery is flat enough now that her car won't start so I'll need to recharge it - this would have absolutely nothing to do with a loose starter motor would it? Potentially could it be the loose terminal connections?

2. I noticed this just lately, not sure if it's always done it or just recently but when I take my foot off the throttle quickly the revs drop immediately to as low (or possibly lower than) 1250RPM. Could it be this really quick drop in revs that could cause it to stall? I noticed the revs drop this low even while traveling 70km/h in 4th, as soon as the foot comes off the revs drop to ~1250 immediately. Is this typical behavior or could it be a sign of fuel pump/injectors/gearbox/anything else I can't think of?

Because of Christmas I probably won't be able to take the car to the mechanic until next year, just want to be certain before replacing something for nothing.

I'll also investigate the CAS, is there any definitive test to determine the condition?

Thanks again all

on point number 2, my car when running on LPG did this and stalled twice; once on roundabout and once coming down a bridge lol. got tuned and fixed. turned out to be too lean and bad earth on oxy sensor, even though urs isnt duel fuel, it mught be ur mixtures and/or sensor.

[dazzar]

Did your fuel pump buzz loudly. they do wear the support bearing and buzz more louder then the drive pins from the motor to the pump section break and it wont pump enough pressure to the injectors. Pulled mine apart after it failed to see what went wrong

[dazzar]

also check filter near tank

[alien]

Does the car idle fine too? Or do the RPM's just jump around a bit? It does sound like a fuel pump to me.

[VS Omega]

Damn there's a lot of things it can be - when I run this tank out it's going to get a new fuel pump because even if that's not the problem at least (I'm hoping) it will stop that buzzing noise from the rear.

I was thinking it's been fine except for the revs but tonight driving home from work the whole car cut out for a split second, but since I had my foot on the throttle it started again by itself - I think maybe I went over a bump in the road.

Will check out the fuel/air ratios with efilive tomorrow, see if anything comes up (it has one of those aftermarket ebay memcals in it, hoping to get one programmed for the car soon by the well known experts here - wouldn't be surprised if it's messing it up a bit maybe).

Trying to think about how it idles as hard as I can, maybe 5% rougher than it used to but just sitting at the lights I think it stays in place (I remember not praying it would stall at the lights) - going to check this tomorrow as well.

Not sure how to check the filter but will consult the bible (gregorys), assuming it doesn't mean wasting precious petrol (though it has been cheap lately)

Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts all

[woteva]

it has one of those aftermarket ebay memcals in it

Take it out an put the stocker chip back in, if you still have it. Your problems may go away

[VS Omega]

Today was too busy and lookin' after my son now so didn't get a chance to check out the fuel filter today but should do tomorrow...

Today the car wouldn't start 20 minutes after a quick (hard) 10 minute drive to my parents house, it kept trying but wouldn't turn over, tried three times (banged the kick panel very hard but nothing happened, then the fourth time it started first time - just by this I sort of get the feeling it may not be the memcal or CAS because the car was stationary, and the CAS couldn't have cooled down any more in 30 seconds (could have got hot enough though).

I get the feeling it's definately either the fuel pump/filter, the CAS or both - only problem is the wife doesn't trust my car so it's going to take a while to get the tank really low to take in for a fuel pump. Just going to have to play the waiting game I suppose

[VS Omega]

I used a paper clip today to see if it spat out any error codes (damned if I know how to with EFILive) and guess what? I HAVE TWO!

Code 46 - No Reference Signals while cranking
Code 47 - Crank Angle Reference Signal

Does this mean it's possible it's the crank angle sensor and not the fuel pump is the cause of these nightmares? or could it just be saying the CAS because it died due to the fuel pump? Or both?

Also to update took it to the shops last night, bit of trouble starting to get there, wouldn't start for the trip home, after about 6 tries it did end up starting and stalled four times on the way home (each time also had trouble starting).

I actually uploaded a video to youtube of the car stalling then not starting this morning, sounds not very loud (if you wanna have a look be careful because the engine sounds are weak but my keys jangling are loud). For now it says the video hasn't yet been processed but it might work by the time anyone reads this post - here's the link: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=laGghYfgqEA (~0:54)

Many thanks for thoughts and suggestions all

[VS Omega]

I decided to start the car and leave it running until it stalled then throw some water on the CAS - when out there I wasn't 100% sure where it was so I just threw a lot of water on the passenger side under the coils. After running for only 1 minute the exhaust manifolds were so hot they vaporised the water instantly - definitely not a good sign at all (temperature wise) considering I haven't driven the car at all today!

I noticed after pouring the water, first time it was cranking a few times but it did turn over at all, except once where it started for like 0.2 of a second before dieing, then on the second try although rough after starting it stayed running until it normalized. I did this repeatedly and it was always the same, first time running for 0.2 then dieing, second time starting rough then running. I did also notice that after it died on each first try a spinning noise which got slower like winding down or something - possibly water on the belt? Or could that be a brand new problem?

I'm still tossing up between fuel pump or CAS, does anyone know about the error codes in my last post?

Thanks all (for your patience now and wisdom)


EDIT: I forgot about this when I typed the post but I noticed what sounded like a relay clicking I think while it was running (when I just started it) but after taking the fuse cover screws off I couldn't hear it any more, if that helps

EDIT 2: Noticed liquid behind the exhaust when I was finished, like a small puddle (not a lot but not a little)

[woteva]

The error codes say it is your CAS. Intermitent starting and stalling definately sounds like a CAS problem. Usually, if the fuel pump is shagged, it will stay shagged, not come good again.

[VS Omega]

Well went to wreckers to pick up a CAS, didnt have any but they told me to try Repco. Didn't expect them to sell it (was going to Holdens after wreckers). Repco actually had them! $50 for the part. Beautiful! Looked at the job and realized I couldn't do it myself. Mechanic wanted $120 to supply and fit or $50 to fit. Limped the car there and they put it in yesterday.

So far so good, but only time will tell. If it happens again then it's also the fuel pump lol.

Thanks heaps all for your advise/input/wisdom.

Just to add something to this, I got a quote from Lube Mobile and they wanted $230+ to supply and fit. Pays to research (and I know I probably could have gotten it installed for cheaper or got the stuff to do it myself but wouldn't want to risk it.

[woteva]

Just for others reading this thread, NEVER BUY A CAS FROM A WRECKER.