Bad kicking in 4th gear VS commodore automatic

[Changa]

When I drive at about 80-100kph and try to accelerate slowly (revs at about 1500-2000) or maintain speed on an incline the car kicks badly, its like a rocking motion or a powerful punch like its missing revs or something. Although when I give it some and ramp the revs up to about 3000-3500 the car is feels fine. I have no idea what it is but I have a feeling the gearbox may be responsible. Its a commodore VS 1996 model with 164000k's on it and the original gear box is still in there so that might be the probelm? Any other ideas? The rocking motion is hard to explain but it really smacks the car, it moves the seats when its really bad.

Thanks in advance,
Alex Short

[Niggadore]

I'm not too sure, but how long ago was the tranny oil changed, how many K's has the car done, does it drive fine in every other gear? .

Try driving the car in 3rd at that speed, and check if theres any noticeable kicks/surges like you said previously.

It might be hot swapping between intermediate 4th and hard 4th.

In my mums vr, hard fourth had most of the teeth stuffed and so when the car would go from intermediate 4th to hard 4th, and because the teeth were stuffed, it wasn't connecting, so it'd freak out, surge and go back to intermediate 4th, and just keep doing to same thing. kinda the same symptoms as you describe, but i'm most likely wrong.

[cander24]

Does the car only do this in 4th Gear? Sounds like the car is mainly doing this when it is labouring under load (ie low revs pulling up a hill) in which case id be starting by replacing your plugs and leads.

[hako]

Sounds like the TCC (torque converter clutch) giving trouble. This normally kicks in when cruising at ~80kph and locks the torque converter solid which improves fuel consumption. At your mileage you are probably looking at a reco trans unfortunately. I'd see a transmission specialist - ask around for a good one as there are some cowboys around. If you plan on keeping the car for a few years then the cost of a reco doesn't hurt so bad!.

[DannyboyDS]

have a look at some simple things though too, check your mounts for the engine and the trans, check the ignition system over briefly, then move on to reco trans, I hate spending a wallet full of cash, to only learn that it wasn't the exact problem problem.

[Chappo_1]

Hi all, I am new to this forum, it is great.

My '96 VS six cyl. does this. When it is under load going up a hill, it makes a strange noise, like a grinding vibration, for only a second or so, which is either coming from the gear box, or the drive shaft. I don't think it is as bad as Alex's car though, no rocking motion. I thought it was thinking about going back to third, but then changed its mind. I have never heard of, until now, about intermediate and hard 4th.
It only does it in 4th, if I shift back to third it will not do it. On my way home from work, there is a hill it will do it on every time, if the road is clear, and I can do the speed limit of 90k, it is OK, but if there is some joker in front of me driving Miss Daisy, slowing me down, I make sure I go back to third.

I was thinking the labouring was causing the CV joint, or the universals in the drive shaft to complain. The uni's seem OK, but I don't know about CV joint. I have been getting around to looking at it. The workshop manual I have says I need a press to remove the bearing (which I don't have), and the instructions aren't real clear, so I am a bit hesitant to pull it apart.

Anyway, that's my two bobs worth, maybe it will help, and maybe I'll get some help or tips on the CV joint in my tailshaft.
Oh yeah, it had 240k on the clock when I bought it, and it has around 350k now. Ignition system is in good order. It is well overdue for a transmission service, but the oil still looks red and clean on the dipstick. I will be changing the oil and filter soon, I have been getting tips on changing the oil and filter from this forum.
When I saw this posting, I had to reply.
Cheers, Chappo.

[DannyboyDS]

Welcome Chappo and thanks for the input.

[Stimps]

Sounds like the TCC (torque converter clutch) giving trouble. This normally kicks in when cruising at ~80kph and locks the torque converter solid which improves fuel consumption. At your mileage you are probably looking at a reco trans unfortunately. I'd see a transmission specialist - ask around for a good one as there are some cowboys around. If you plan on keeping the car for a few years then the cost of a reco doesn't hurt so bad!.

My VR II has a slipping converter just enough to put up a code 68 at a curse of ~100kph, G/Box specialist said the same thing as you have, converter. Shame he wasnt up here in Brizzy. I could tell you of a top trany bloke who built a sweet g/box for my SS.

Going to get my VR II box rebuilt in the next 6 weeks for $1250 drive away full reco fitted.

[Changa]

As for parts such as leads and plugs both are brand new, although today i found a fair leak in transmission cooling pipes going to the radiator, although this cant be helping this problem has been happening long before the leak, as for transmission fluid i have no idea how old it is but tomorrow i will buy a new pipe and get new transmission fluid as it has almost all leaked out. As for the torque converter clutch it might sound as if it needs replacing, the car has done 164000k's and is running the original transmission. And yes it seems to drive fine in every other gear.

[Changa]

Err one other question when replacing the tranny fluid u just pour it into the hole where the dipstick for it is? I have never done it and that seemed the logical place for it.

[greenacc]

maybe nothing to do with it , but check its not your trailing arm bushes worn out causing the car to sway.

[hako]

Err one other question when replacing the tranny fluid u just pour it into the hole where the dipstick for it is? I have never done it and that seemed the logical place for it.

That's where it goes - shouldn't take more than a litre....any more lost and the trans would be slipping badly.

[Changa]

Nah had the bushes replaced a little while ago so it aint them, also you arent supposed to overfill the tranny fluid?

[hako]

Don't overfill otherwise you get foaming and then slipping as the pump sucks foam. The fluid should be checked after the car has driven about 20km so the fluid is warm - stand the car on level ground, engine running and gear shift in PARK. Pull the dipstick, wipe and reinsert and oil level should be in the cross hatched HOT area. Use Dexron 111

[Changa]

Yeah I had the car on and in park just idle revving, slowly adding the fluid to see when I hit the hot cross section. It took the whole 1L bottle and now sits nicely on the hot crossed part, so i must have had bugger all left in there, as it doesnt take much more than a litre does it? Fixed the pipe it was like 5 bucks to buy and easy to replace no more leaks.

[hako]

Hold about 7.9 litres in total and for a normal service you'd use 4.8 litres....so your leak was only a dribble. Now the leak is fixed you've still got that kicking problem!

[Changa]

Ok guys the kicking is still there, I went for a drive and I found out that this happens in all the gears at low revs, at the low gears it is more sublte at low revs and at the top gear it is far more noticable. So it prolly means I need a new gearbox/transmission?

[hako]

Different ballgame now that it happens in all gears.....probably not the transmission....try doing a fault codes test:Checking error codes VR/VS (Revised)

[immortality]

Ok guys the kicking is still there, I went for a drive and I found out that this happens in all the gears at low revs, at the low gears it is more sublte at low revs and at the top gear it is far more noticable. So it prolly means I need a new gearbox/transmission?

i think you have a ignition problem. i thinks it's a high load/low rpm miss. i thought it was the torque converter clutch as well, however a trans place took it for a test drive and couldn't fail it. i find if it starts to miss it's best to shift it back a gear and get the revs up and it's fine.

check coils, plugs leads etc. double check the plug gap. i have this fault on the missus VS, i've changed plugs and leads and problem went away...... for a little while and then came back. i changed coils and DFI unit and problem went away........ and then came back. new leads again etc still there. been through about 4 sets of plugs, i'm now going to change the CAS to see if that is effecting things. i'm also goingto close the pluggap up a little to see what that does. i also suspect a fuel pressure problem. last time i pulled the fuse for the fuel pump the engine died straight away, normally there is enough fuel pressure in the line to keep the engine running for a bit also going to try some new injectors incase one cylinder is running lean.

if that doesn't work i think the car needs to be stolen/burnt so i can get the insurance payout

[Changa]

i think you have a ignition problem. i thinks it's a high load/low rpm miss. i thought it was the torque converter clutch as well, however a trans place took it for a test drive and couldn't fail it. i find if it starts to miss it's best to shift it back a gear and get the revs up and it's fine.

check coils, plugs leads etc. double check the plug gap. i have this fault on the missus VS, i've changed plugs and leads and problem went away...... for a little while and then came back. i changed coils and DFI unit and problem went away........ and then came back. new leads again etc still there. been through about 4 sets of plugs, i'm now going to change the CAS to see if that is effecting things. i'm also goingto close the pluggap up a little to see what that does. i also suspect a fuel pressure problem. last time i pulled the fuse for the fuel pump the engine died straight away, normally there is enough fuel pressure in the line to keep the engine running for a bit also going to try some new injectors incase one cylinder is running lean.

if that doesn't work i think the car needs to be stolen/burnt so i can get the insurance payout

As I said before the leads and plugs are new only done about 2-3000 k's and the problem was there before the new leads and plugs were put in. Ignition coils Im not so sure about I could replace those. Im going to give it to a good mechanic Im hearing good reports about and see if he can see what the problem is.

[Changa]

Hey guys just to give an update I checked the car computer for fault codes and it gave me a 12 (system pass) so that doesnt really shed any light on the issue. Hopefully this mechanic Im giving it too can tell me what needs to be done, wont do the coil pack yet as I hear they are quite expensive.

[Changa]

My VR II has a slipping converter just enough to put up a code 68 at a curse of ~100kph, G/Box specialist said the same thing as you have, converter. Shame he wasnt up here in Brizzy. I could tell you of a top trany bloke who built a sweet g/box for my SS.

Going to get my VR II box rebuilt in the next 6 weeks for $1250 drive away full reco fitted.

Thats the thing my car gave me a code 12 so I have no idea what the go is lol

[hako]

When you checked for codes did you get 3 sequences of 12's?.....it's only after this that the error code (if any) is given.

[Changa]

Yeah i dont know how many I got but I sat there watching for a good 2 minutes and it was just 12 over and over and over again. So yeha just have to see what this mechanic says. Its odd though its not really killing the car its only a bit of a pain at high speeds and even then u just have to accelerate harder instead of softer to avoid the issue.

[BxTom]

Hi Guys, I am having the exact same problem. Replaced plugs and leads problem fixed then returns. Replaced fuel filter - no chang. Have traced it to a coil pack - #6 lead not getting any spark (or missing/intermittent). Will be replacing all coil packs and dfi and will let you know how it goes in a few days or so.

Tom.