VS rough on start up, then fine

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

hey guys, new problem in the vs, she turns over fine but after that if i give her a small squirt of gas she burbles and gurgles for a seccond or 2 untill the revs come up between 2-3 grand and then she sounds more normal, it only seams to happen when i havent driven her in a while eg first start up in the morning, or a start up after 2-4 hours of not driving it

im gunna change the spark plugs this weekend, i was just showing my mate at work the problem and noticed that i couldent hear the fuel pump priming and then going, my mate reckons that the ingecters could be dirty

so the plan is, injecter cleaner, spark plugs then if no improvement ill change the fuel pump.

are there any other problems that could be causing this??

also ive got a drive up 2 auckland (about 2-3 hours) to make this friday will driving it with what ever the current problem is do more damage??

all ideas and help welcome

cheers guys

[aceventura]

I have exactly the same problem at the moment.

If I haven't driven it for a few days it shudders and runs very rough until the revs go to around 3000 and then it goes as good as ever! The problem has only developed in the last week or so.

No fault codes
Injectors were serviced about a month ago
Can't locate any vaccum leaks unless there is a leak between the injector o-rings and the inlet manifold that seals when the engine is revved?
Resistance of the HT leads seem fine (genuine holden parts ~ 2 years old)
Seconday resistance of the coils seems fine (haven't checked the primary resistance)
NGK plugs are only 3 months old

But I am still not going to rule any of those out. The only things I am unsure of are:

-I don't know how to check the DFI module (and I guess I would get an error code for that).

-Haven't got the equipment to check the fuel pressure regulator or fuel pump. (I know 2 people that have had a fuel pump fail at 170000km and I am nearly there!)

Hopefully this may help diagnose both mine and Psyko Phoenix's problem (if they are the same issue). Any ideas????

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

thank god im not the only one hahaha, soulds like well be killing 2 stones with one bird, ill have a crack ath the same things that youve suggested and hopfully one of us will find the cure!

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

ok, ive just put a bottle of nulon total fuel system cleaner into her, ill let you know if theres any improvement, as soon as i can tell

next step after this one is to do all the spark plugs, there gettin abit old hahaha

[sedate looking]

Look straight to the fuel regulator. These stupid items are controlled via heat from the cooling system. They are renowned for stuffing up, and causing owners to go around the bend looking for the fault.

Another sometime symptom is if you start it, runs rough and blows a heap of black smoke out. It is just fueling the car up too much when cold.If you search Google for an answer, time and time again it comes back to this little pesky device. Not cheap either at around the $120 mark most places.

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

so how do i fix the little bastard??

and more importantly were is the thing hiding?

by the way i love your avatar pic thingey!

[sedate looking]

For a V6 i would have to check where it is. There is only one way to fix them, replace them.

And thanks for the avatar comment. One of the standard ones from my site.

[VS5lTR]

I got a problem like that but mine sounds rough for a few seconds on start up but not when i put my foot on the gas

[aceventura]

Look straight to the fuel regulator. These stupid items are controlled via heat from the cooling system.

The fuel pressure regulator is at the end of the fuel rail, at the back of the engine on the drivers side.

This may well be our problem, but to the best of my knowledge they are control by manifold vacuum pressure, not heat from the cooling system. The vacuum control reduces the fuel pressure at idle (high manifold vacuum), and increases the fuel pressure when the engine is working (low manifold vacuum).

[big balls]

if ur putting in new spark plugs try platinum plugs they will work heaps better

[sedate looking]

if ur putting in new spark plugs try platinum plugs they will work heaps better

Absolute waste of money.. See this thread for plug advice, not the above reply...

spark plugs

[big balls]

well i dont really no wat there worth coz i got mine for about $3 a plug so not really a waste of money for me anyway

[undar8ed1]

Fuel regulators are located at the back of one of the fuel rails.

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

UPDATE

fuel pump sounds like its working fine

nulon ingector etc cleaner, little to no effect

spark plugs - havent done them yet, but i doubt its them

im gunna find the fuel regulator and replace it, that seams to be the only way to fix the problem at the mo

so its fingers crossed

1 more question though, i get payd monthly and im currently broke, my next pay is the 15th of feb, is driving the car with a bung fuel regulator for that long gunna damage it??

[aceventura]

1 more question though, i get payd monthly and im currently broke, my next pay is the 15th of feb, is driving the car with a bung fuel regulator for that long gunna damage it??

I am not certain but I wouldn't have thought so - I think your greatest risk is it failing outright, then you won't be doing anything. (I am happy to be corrected on this point)

Apart from that, crap performance and high fuel consumption I think are your greatest concerns.

I am taking my car to the mechanic on Wednesday to get the aircon regassed, I'll get him to check the fuel pressure while he it at it, and let you know. There is no point replacing an expensive part if it isn't nescesary.

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

excelent! your a legend bro, thanks heaps, ittl be good to find out what the hell is goin on!

[aceventura]

excelent! your a legend bro, thanks heaps, ittl be good to find out what the hell is goin on!

Alright, had the mechanic test the fuel pressure and flow - everything is fine. So you might have just saved yourself a few hundred if the cause of your problem is the same as mine.

But I have something for you to try:

The other day while I was playing around I removed the idle air control valve (IAC). It was coked up so I cleaned it with some carby cleaner, then sprayed some WD40 on it. I haven't had an issue since. Idle is also smoother.

Disconnect your battery while doing this, so that the ECU is reset at the same time. See how you go - cheap fix if it works.

[moff_man]

while your at it clean the whole throttle body, best to remove it, there are some small passages in there that get blocked and this could be the cause of the issue. and yes the iac would be good to clean as well

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

brilliant thats heaps cheaper!!! ill give it a crack, is it a hard thing to do? and would it be in the gregories?? if not is there any chance of a walk through, sorry im still learning this whole mechanicle thing (see i cant even spell it right hahaha)

[aceventura]

brilliant thats heaps cheaper!!! ill give it a crack, is it a hard thing to do? and would it be in the gregories?? if not is there any chance of a walk through, sorry im still learning this whole mechanicle thing (see i cant even spell it right hahaha)

I am sure pulling the valve out is in the Gregory's manual, there are also threads on the JC site. Then it is just a matter of cleaning the valve and putting it back in - at least that was all I did.

Take moff_man's advice and do the throttle body while you are at it - very straight forward.

Do the ECU reset too - in case the position of the valve moves.

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

new simptom, i was doin an oil change on her over the weekend and i noticed a strong petrol smell in and arround the engine bay, what could this be?? i didnt have time to do the throttle body or anything else on her and the problem is still happning (inother words leaving it alone hasnt done jack lol. and ive got an engine error code 49, cam angle or crank angle sensor (signal intermittant) any one got any more ideas? are these related??

[WogBoyz]

Hey everyone im new here, nice to meet you all, but my vs ute does the same thing on cold starts, ive asked ppl bout it n looked into it, apprently its just how our engine starts up and there isnt anything wrong with it cus all my mates ecotecs does the same thing, hope this was helpfull

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

go to your tool kit, grab your tourque wrench and procede to smack you mates in the head with it hahahaha, just kiddin bro.

na bro its not right, ive had my vs for 7 months and its only just started doing it this month, you and your mates should start trouble shooting with your cars, find out what is causing the problem in each car etc, ive resined my self to the fact that my mechanical skill are not good enough to fix this problem, so i think ill go hungry for the next month and just take her in to the local holden stealership and get them to fix it, because its just being a pain in the a$$

[WogBoyz]

hahah oh ok mine has had the slow start since ive had it for almost 2 yrs now and its had all its services n that its running perfectly so i dunno, lemme know if u find out what the problem is man

[PSYKO PHOENIX]

sweets as bro, i will do!, im gunna take her in, get this issue fixed and then get them to give her a good going over and make sure theres no other issues, ill let you know how i get on, hopfully ith nothing major!