Code 46 and 47

[Chappo_1]

Hi all, my ’96 VS II six cylinder stalled on me last night when I pulled up at a red light. It started again OK. I parked at a mates place for a few hours, it started up OK when I left, but when I stopped at a servo ten minutes later, it would not start straight away, it cranked over, but would not fire. After a couple of times of doing this, I sat there and thought CAS? Maybe I should pour some cold water on it. I then tried it again, and it started. It started OK this morning, drove it to work (20 mins) no problems, when I stopped at work, I waited a minute in the car, and started it again, no problem.
I then checked for error codes and got 46 and 47.
My Haynes manual says:
46 - No reference signal from ignition module while cranking
47 – No 18X reference signal from ignition module
On the link to the list of codes on this forum it says:
46 - No Reference Signals while cranking
47 - Crank Angle Reference Signal

What do you think I should do first, replace the crank angle sensor? It seems, from what I read, this is a pretty common fault.
There was a thread started on this subject called “diagnostic codes” back in January, by ironsavage. He was told either CAS or DFI, but there was no post back saying whether or not the problem was solved.

Any help I can get will be appreciated.
Thanks, Chappo.

[immortality]

it will be the CAS. it's wired through the DFI module which is why you have the "46 - No reference signal from ignition module while cranking".

generally they are fine when things are cold but becomes problomatic as the engine heats up. if the engine fires after poooring cold water over the CAS is normally a good indicator that the CAS is faulty

[Chappo_1]

Thanks immortality, I have just priced a CAS at the local Holden Dealer, about $100.00.
Tonight I’ll see if I have a puller suitable for the harmonic balancer, I hope I can use the puller I used to use on the Holden red motor that was in a HK I used to own. I'll also check on eBay for a CAS, but I think I would rather do the job sooner than later, by the time I have one delivered off eBay, it could be well into next week. (I can't check on eBay at work, the IT bloke here has banned us from using eBay).
Cheers.

[immortality]

i'm not certain but the bolts required to pull the ballancer off are either 6mm fine thread of 1/4"unf. i wonder if the CAS fault is related to the slow starting problem?

[Chappo_1]

I’ve just spent ages searching on this forum for a thread where I read how to tighten up the harmonic balancer nut to the correct tension with a tension wrench that does not set as high as the tension required, but I cannot find it. Something about measuring how far the nut turns for a certain tension setting. Anybody else seen this here, or was I dreaming?
What if I just put a big bar on it and tighten it until my kidneys nearly pop?

This is assuming I can get the thing off. I’ve read some blokes put the bar on the chassis rail and turn the motor over. Anyone had any dramas doing this?

Thanks.

[hako]

Use some Locktite on the threads and you will also need to stop the engine turning over - maybe remove starter and jam ring-gear. Tension is about 3 times that required for a head bolt but don't overdo it as you may distort the ring gear. Good Luck.

[immortality]

i use a steel bar with 2 bolts through it. they line up with 2 holes in the ballancer, and the bar locks against the ground. i then use a 3/4" socket set to undo/do-up the bolt. not had any trouble with this setup. if it's a manula car just put the car in gear, have someone jump on the brakes and use the socket set.

[Chappo_1]

i use a steel bar with 2 bolts through it. they line up with 2 holes in the ballancer, and the bar locks against the ground. i then use a 3/4" socket set to undo/do-up the bolt. not had any trouble with this setup. if it's a manula car just put the car in gear, have someone jump on the brakes and use the socket set.

Hey immortality, what sort of steel bar do you use for this job? (BTW I have an auto).
My first attempt was with a flat bar I already had but it was not very thick, it bent like it was a piece of cooked pasta. Last night I used a piece of water pipe, about 25mm outside diameter. I can’t go much thicker because of the length of the bolts I have. This bent also. It bent where I had to grind some away between the bolt holes. I need to grind some away to get the socket on. I am using a ¾ drive socket and bar. The bolt is way tight! My Haynes manual says to put a bar between two bolts and rest it on the chassis. I couldn’t get the socket on doing this. Plus I worry about bending the bolts doing it this way. They are high tensile bolts, grade five I think. They have three marks on the head.

I have got hold of a piece of flat bar, it is about 10mm thick, an about 40mm across. I did have this when I made up the water pipe piece, but I thought I would use this as a last resort, because it will be a hell job cutting and grinding this.

I have had no more trouble with the running or starting of the motor since the first time it played up, but if the ECU gave me the error codes, then I want to change the CAS. If I have to, I will take it to a mechanic to have it done, but I would like to do it myself.

I bought a CAS for $76 last week, so I could get it done last weekend, rather than wait to get one cheaper from eBay (about $50.00). With all this trouble I am having getting the bolt undone, I could have ordered it off eBay, it would probably be here by now.

Thanks for any advice.

[immortality]

my flat bar is 50x8mm not sure how long it is. i just drilled 2 holes through it, put some long bolts with nuts on and put those in the holes of the ballancer. that bolt is bloody tight the holes are drilled at the very edge of the bar otherwise you do have issues getting the socket on that bloody bolt

what size bolts screw into the holes to pull the ballancer off?

[Chappo_1]

Thanks for the quick reply mate. Sounds like the piece of bar I have should do the job. I’ll do like you and drill the holes near the edge, save mucking around with the grinder.
I will give it another go tonight.
The bolts are ¼" UNF.

Thanks heaps.

[Chappo_1]

Success! You need a fat bar to do the job. I now have a new CAS installed. Once you get that bloody bolt out, the job is pretty straight forward.
Thanks for the help Immortality, I reckon without this forum, I’d have gotten someone else to do the job. The method put forward in the Haynes manual wasn’t very good, you would need a thin bar to get the socket on, and as I said , thin doesn’t cut it, you need a fat one!

Cheers all, and have a good weekend.

[immortality]

welldone mate. this place has helped me a few times so it's only fair i do the same in return for others