Power window knocking

[dbarnes]

Hey,

A few months back my driver door power window had one of the white "teeth" parts that hold the regulator to the slide bit at the bottom of the glass, snap, and therefore the window fell through into the door. I replaced that and everything was going smoothly till a few days ago.

If I try to put the window down it will bang as if its under pressure and then will go down further and then bang again and then it will keep going down smoothly. Is smooth on the return up till you hit the top of the door and instead of stopping normally it will continue to make that horrible banging sound...its just a really loud sort of clicking if I hold the button down...any ideas what it could be before I go pulling the door trim off?

[ephect]

2 things come to mind.

1. i was thinking that some teeth in the regulator itself are broken. which then didnt make sense when u wind the window up its not skipping.

2. some of the rivits have sheard off, in which case replace it with 5mm bolts that are around 20-25mm long.

[dbarnes]

Right well if they have sheared off they should be at the bottom of the door? I'll have to have a look.
Thanks mate

[ephect]

yeap and you'll also notice that they are missing from the reg mount points on the door

[dbarnes]

Ok ive finally got a day off to try and fix this ****er.
Took the door trim off and I've discovered this at the bottom of the door...see pic attached.

I believe ephect was right and that this is one of the sheared off rivits?? Can anyone can confirm this for me...and whether the bolts i need are 5mm?

Hopefully I can get this fixed today! thanks

[cander24]

Its a bit hard to tell, but the parts in the pic almost look a bit too big to be the head of a rivet. From memory they should be around 18mm diameter. Have a look at the inner door skin where the regulator fixes to it. Originally it is fixed with 4 rivets. Check that they are all still in place and maybe even grab hold of the motor and see if you can move it around to see if any of the rivets are even just a bit loose. And yes i'm pretty sure 5mm bolts will fit straight in without any mods once the remains of the rivet is drilled out, I drilled mine out to 8mm. Make sure you use nyloc nuts too if this is the problem. Otherwise you can also still by the genuine rivets from holden spare parts.

[dbarnes]

Mate Im baffled because all the rivets are still in place, and nothing appears loose...where the hell did these things(in the pic) come from?

edit: i think its the washer and seal on the regulator arm..

[cander24]

Not sure. They don't look like any part or fixing i've ever come across in a vs door so i'd be guessing they're not related (beats me how they ended up in there though). Have you inspected all of the teeth on both the drive gear on the motor and also on the regulator arm that it drives? Whats the condition of the slides and all other moving parts, all well greased and moving freely? Does the window track straight?

[dbarnes]

Ive figured out whats happening I think. As I put the window down the regulator arm is bending, as the "teeth" that is sliding across is not freely sliding and the arm has to work against it, and therefore bends making the banging noise... its all lubricated well though I'm still baffled lol... I'll go have another look...any more ideas would be great mate but yeah I believe its to do with the regulator arm too

[dbarnes]

The arm kinda bends away from the rivet thing holding it to the teeth when going down (is it meant to do that?) and then it will straighten back up when window is going back up and will continue going up smoothly as opposed to going down where there is the occasional knock, then continues...

the teeth look fine as ive replaced one before that was snapped... its all lubricated too... do u think that the rivet holding the teeth and regulator arm together is stuffed or just the arm in general? i got it all the way to the bottom without a bang if i let it go down slowly as the teeth just gets overwhelmed on the way down i think and cant move across the slider quickly enough to keep up with the window...

also the window will kind of angle itself on the way down then straigten back up when it comes up if that helps

[cander24]

Not sure when I say 'rivets' you and I are talking about the same things? The 4 rivets i'm referring to are the ones being drilled out in this pic:
Note that in a vs door the rivets should be bigger than this, about 18mm as I said earlier. Is this what you're talking about also or the two metal guides which the arms run in? If that makes sense?
Is it possible for you to get any pictures at all?

[dbarnes]

Nah I know about those 4, checked them earlier like you said and they all seem fine.
Im talking about the metal guides which arms run in...

Ive added both pics, notice how in the second how it bends outwards after the window has been lowered?

[cander24]

So the arm that is bending is the top one in the pic that runs in the guide on the bottom of the glass? On the end of the arms there is a white plastic guide block. I connects to the arm with a ball and socket type joint. Does this joint all move around freely without any resistance? Is this the part you recently replaced? Also does this white plastic block have any tight spots when sliding in the metal guide?

[dbarnes]

Yes it was the part I replaced, and yep spot on, has the "tight spots" when sliding in the metal guide (thats what I was trying to point out) -["i got it all the way to the bottom without a bang if i let it go down slowly as the teeth just gets overwhelmed on the way down i think and cant move across the slider quickly enough to keep up..."] ...sorry wasnt very clear though now that i re- read that.

so yes its the top arm that is bending, with tight spots as it moves across the metal guide

[cander24]

Oh ok I understand now. Im surprised it hasn't been causing you trouble since first replaced. I suppose it could be one of a few things then. Did you grease the ball and socket joint of the white plastic block to ensure it can rotate freely. Is there any damage at all to the metal guide on the bottom of the window glass (such as a burr, little dent or anything else that would cause a change in the width of the track etc)? Is there a build up of grit/contamination stuck in the grease in the slide working against the movement like sandpaper?

[dbarnes]

I cant see any damage I ran a screwdriver along it to feel for any imperfections, it felt smooth...and if there were imperfections in the metal guide, wouldnt it be noticed on the way up too? As it travels perfectly when putting the window up(till u get to the stop where it cant go further and it just bangs) but yeah its just going down that the main problem
......the grease is now kind of runny due to the WD40 ha..

I dont recall greasing the ball and socket joint of the white plastic block...perhaps this is the problem, but surely it would have gave me problems from the start like u said? this is really annoying me now.

[cander24]

What about the arms themselves. Are they slightly bent at all, allowing them to rub against each other as the window is lowered?

[dbarnes]

took the ****ed rubber seal out...was working fine....then the ****in window has come off like last time but none of the teeth are snapped like last time....eh time for a mechanic to have a look i think.... gonna go try put the glass back in now tho

[dbarnes]

well glass is back in, it is going down freely now but when it gets to the bottom it snaps off, as if theres nothing to stop it, is this because that rubber seal is no longer there to stop it or?
p.s. thanks for ur help today cander, big help mate

[cander24]

Which rubber seal are you referring to? The ones that run vertical with the window frame? Also when you say it 'snaps off' do you mean the white plastic block is coming off the arm or the whole arm is moving too far and drops out of the guide?

[dbarnes]

yes the one running vertical with the door. and yep what you just said is pretty much what happens, the white block gets "shot off" the ball joint so to speak, as we tried again to put the window all the way down and the block nearly hit me in the eye when it came off.

is the rubber seal supposed to stop the movement of the arm when it reaches the top or bottom??

[cander24]

I cant remember exactly what that seal looks like, but i'd be putting it back in. It almost sounds like the cutout points on the motor are out of whack. When the window is fully lowered, is the top of the window glass any lower than the top of the door skin?

[dbarnes]

The seal is rooted will have to get a new one. I dont think that the glass is any lower than the top of the door skin when fully lowered, otherwise when the white block came off, it would not have fallen into the door so to speak...

Maybe the seal is there as a guide for the glass? And seeing as it was stuffed, it was not being able to go down freely, but when the stuffed seal is removed, it can go down freely, but has not got the seeal there to stop it once it reaches the cut off? Just a suggestion i dunno ha..

[cander24]

Yes thats correct. That rubber seal also acts as the guide for the glass and keeps it fairly rigid during movement, obviously only allowing for up and down movement (i.e. stops window being able to be rocked back and forward etc). Without this seal and with the window in the lowered position, you will be able to slide the window back and forward a bit. Im guessing that because you've removed the seal, its because of the extra movement the glass now has that it has strained the arms to the point of dislocating the socket joint on the plastic block? I'd recommend installing the new seal before anything else.

[dbarnes]

Hopefully it is just this seal that needs replacing then I'll try to get it done over the weekend or on Monday, and will give you a heads up on how it goes. Thanks again m8