need advice on this situation please

[minitsbay]

pics added in post #29


hi guys

i have a 1998 vt commodore v6 have owned the car for 10 years always servced no major problems until now

i was advised the intake manifold gasket was leaking by mechanic fair enough car has 200k on the clock so be worth doing anyways so book it in to have it done we dropped it in on thursday arvo it and we picked it up friday arvo cost was $489.00 parts and labour.

now to the problem my mrs drove the car home from the mechanic 1.2km when we got home i pulled up behind her and to my shock the car sounded like a bloody truck to me it sounds like piston slap or something i told her to turn the car off i tried ringing the mechanic but no one answered so went back out to the car tried to start it and it wouldnt start the enging was hard to crank over (like a dead battery) but battery wasnt dead.

i went and tried mechanic again he answered i told him what happened he said he would send someone around in 10 mins to have a look at it which i thought great

30 mins later no one turned up i had to go pick up me kid from school so left the mrs there by time i got back he still hadnt showed up so i tried to start the car again it spat and farted like it wanted to start so i held the throttle open and eventually it started

the car shakes like hell and theres a loud slap knocking sound coming from the motor gets louder with higher rpms i turned it off again as i dont want to damage it anyways the mechanics turn up jump in it start it up here the sound and say hmmm bit wierd they check the oil and water say oil is bit low but not low enough to cause dramas to them it sounds like the timing is out i said no its not and they just stared at me said ok we will take it back down the workshop and check it out

i said fine as by this time my mrs was late for work the only other car we have is a manual she cant drive it so i had to take her i said to them i have to go here is a key i cant wait around exspecting them to get a flatbed or something but they jump in it start it up drive it down the work shop

this all ahppened last friday


now i went down there yesterday as i heard nothing from them i understand we have had a long weekend and stuff but still could of rang me tuesday arvo wednesday sometime anyway spoke to them they tell me it has low oil pressure he think the oil pickup may be blocked but wont know until he pulls the sump off he said he changed the oil and filter and it did pick up some pressure he seems to think there might be some sludge in the bottom of the sump from solvent used i pressume he means solvents from cleaning the intake manifold

i said to him to me it sounds like its thrown a piston or something he reckons nah sounds different


my question is

what do you guys think about this

is he responsible to fix it

should it cost me anything

if i have dramas getting him to repair it who can i consult im in nsw


just so you know the car was running fine except form having to add a bit of water here and there

sorry about the long write up

[acarmody]

I wouldn't be using any mechainc that charges you damn near $500 for an intake manifold gasket. I put a whole new intake manifold on my car with new gaskets and it took my like 3 hours, if a mechanic can't do it in less time than stuff him. The gasket costs (I think) less than $100 with the two gaskets and the 2 end runner things.

[minitsbay]

I wouldn't be using any mechainc that charges you damn near $500 for an intake manifold gasket. I put a whole new intake manifold on my car with new gaskets and it took my like 3 hours, if a mechanic can't do it in less time than stuff him. The gasket costs (I think) less than $100 with the two gaskets and the 2 end runner things.

rates around here for the job vary between $400.00 up to $670.00


mate

thats all well and good but doesnt help my current situation

i would usually do the work myself but due to a recent medical condition (blood clot on the brain) whcih in turn is putting pressure on my optic nerves my vision is not the best at the moment

so please if there is any advice can it just be on the situation im currently stuck in

thsnks

[pablo]

Is he a NRMA approved mechanic? This is why it pays to belong to a motoring club, like RAA, RACV NRMA and what ever is in the other states. They would be the first to contact after the bloke who did the job. Check with your local Department of Consumer Affairs, they will tell (should) which course of action to take.

I am wondering if they dropped a bolt/nut or something else down the intake and didn't notice it?

[minitsbay]

he is a nrma approved workshop

i was thinking same there dropped something down there

also just wondering if it would be common practice to change fluids during intake gasket change over collant and oil me personaly would do both

i just have a feeling he is going to try and pull a "we worked on top of motor now bottom of motor is broke crap on me"

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

It may be some crap from the old intake manifold gasket that has blocked the pickup on the pump. Either way, the problem didn't start until after he had worked on it, so he should cover the cost of fixing it. But with most things mechanical, it would be hard to prove that what he did has caused the problem.

[pablo]

Well, if you think the engine has been damaged by this 'mechanic', write up a diary with time and dates detailing what was said between both sides. Notify the NRMA about what has transpired between this 'approved ' workshop, and yourself, and when you do this ,join up at the same time. Being a member, they will (should) investigate your concerns.

[delcowizzid]

if it was hard to turn over and spluttered a lot ide say it had water getting into a cylinder still after they fixed it. they might have not put the gasket on right and its been leaking or theyve let water get in there when they pulled it down and cranked it and bent a rod or damaged a bearing from the extreme pressure from trying to compress water even with a blocked pickup it will still turn over easy.dont let them screw ya for any major bottom end damage especially after they drove it back to the shop LOL if anything they have done the damage

[danja]

also just wondering if it would be common practice to change fluids during intake gasket change over collant and oil me personaly would do both

You should drain some coolant out, don't have to drop the whole lot. Oil can stay in too.

A conscientious person would probably change fluids, but this is a business we're talking about

Delcowizard might be on the money with his theory.

[spirto]

If they dropped something into the inlets like a bolt, nut etc it could have damaged a valve, or dropped into the top of the piston bending the valve on the top of the piston.

Also might be a case of a sensor not being connected? or even a blocked or faulty injector. It kinda sounds sus, they aren't a hard car to repair.

I'd follow what the rest is saying get someone like RAA, etc to investigate as they will have qualified mechanics that they can send out to do a check. Even though most of us know this job to be easy not alot of us have the little piece of paper saying we know what we are doing and have been tested.

Keep us posted.
Best of luck

[mitmit]

From my personal experienced if the car shakes like hell and loud knocking sound at higher rpm, it's probably caused by water still mixed with oil inside the engine. It could be cylinder blown head gasket not intake gasket so your mechanic should have checked that as well

[minitsbay]

thanks for the advice guys


still waiting to hear back from them was hoping to hear back from them today but heard nothing now closed over the weekend so i will go speak with with them monday i will give consumer affairs a ring just to see what they say

will also speak to the MTA as did a search there and the company is registered there as a member as well

thanks

[Sladdo]

Sounds awefully familiar to when my mate took his VS in to get the aircon fixed & he picked it up with a big end bearing rattle...He scored a VT Ecotec out of it.

[minitsbay]

ok guys update

not overlly happy they have now pulled the motor out ripped sump off and said the main bearings are gone not there fault

there options put to me are

1. put in new bearings about $500.00 with crank grind but without rebuilding the whole motor you wont know if theres any other problems he said

or

2. put in another motor about $1000.00

i told him im not happy as motor was running fine prior to dropping in was only in for an intake manifold has never mised a beat serviced every 5000km (to which he says well that explains why its so clean inside) he still says we are not to blame the above quotes are cheap im trying to help you out keeping labour charges down i just replied with really thats nice.

so my question is guys how much is it for a set a main bearings here is my thinking as he already has the motor out everything off i turn up with a set of main bearings tell him to put them in put it back together no grind no nothing with any luck the new bearings should fix it without the grind but if not i can either wait till im well enough to rebuild it myself or wait for my brother to return who is a mechanic


1. how much are main bearings 1998 vt commodore v6

2. opinion on just putting them n without the grind

he said no metail shaving or fragments or files were in the oil
has good compression but low oil pressure


cheers

[Sladdo]

Hmmm i really dont think you should have to foot 100% of the cost for this. He should at least give you free labour.

[S.T.K.E]

Mate i reckon that he has stuffed up and is trying to pin it on you. I don't understand how you can leave a workshop with a completely different problem you arrived with. I had an old lantra sent it to get fixed they put i new head in. (Old was slightly warped) after he put the new head in drove it a K the piston blew through the sump and he tried to put it back onto me. Called consumer affairs they quickly dealt with the matter. Mate i am sure the bearings were fine before you took it in and since they have done the gasket replacement they have installed in incorrectly allowing water to mix. (like a few others have mentioned). Something is sus about this bloke

[delcowizzid]

yip its either compressed water and has beaten the bearings to death or gasket material has clogged the pick up in the sump.ide get some advice from consumer affairs

[DMG_90_No.18]

This guy is a scammer and a rip off.
Here are a number of possible causes. This may explain the low oil pressure.
Failure of the crankshaft seal would led to oil escaping the engine, if that is so this is a possible reason for your problem. Get your hands on the bearing shells ior check all of them now, if the pair of bearing shells nearest to the seal show symptoms of seizure it will have a bronze colour to it, this is due to the oil film rupturing as a result of loss of oil pressure. The other two bearing shell pairs will just be shiny in colour, this is a sign of oil starvation. Also the rear bearing shells might have a foreign particle trapped between the bearing back and its housing which will lead to a raised area on the shell, equals stuffed bearing. Another one is poor engine tuning will cause excessive loads on the engine components.
Good luck mate

[minitsbay]

i did see 2 halves of bearing shells tonight dont know where they were taken from didnt bring them home with me they were both shiny and silver

i will be going back there in the morning telling him i want to inspect the crank if theres no marks or scratchs will tell him to throw in a set of bearings

basically im in a hardspot as we need the car he has had it for almost 2 weeks and its a joke im still stumped as to why he removed the engine and box out of the car to take the farking sump off jesus

anyways i am contacting consumer affairs tomorow along with mta as well i wil try and get the bearings off him tomoz if i can i will post up pic of them thanks for the advice people

btw i rang and spoke to this bloke (mechanic) tonight he said he will supply and fit new bearings for $100.00

[delcowizzid]

thats a good price bearings about $80 ide say he must be feeling guilty LOL

[S.T.K.E]

Mate i hope he puts it back in correctly. Mate i wish you the best of luck with this keep us posted

[pablo]

In my experience, main journals wear the least. (provided they are adequately lubricated) So if they are not noticably damaged, a fresh set of shells should be enough to get the engine back in service. I personaly would be replacing the big end shells as well.
On the down side, there may be an under lying problem to cause this shell failure!

[aussieghostrider]

wow I have to get my inlet manifold gasket done on my vn ... im scared now lol

as people already said it sounds like he was not careful removing all of the old gasket and its gone in the engine ..

If your car did not have this problem before hand and then 1.5km of driving from mechanics proves he is at fault ..

tell him how about I take car elsewhere and get them to drop the sump to see if theres alot of old gasket in there ...I bet he shits himself ....

if he repairs bearings ... tell him he had better make sure he clears out all the old gasket from sump and pick up.

[S.T.K.E]

tell him how about I take car elsewhere and get them to drop the sump to see if theres alot of old gasket in there ...I bet he shits himself ....

If you end up saying that to him he will more then likley say go for it. They problem will be out of his hands.

[pablo]

Thats absurd!! it's already been stated that the oil pressure is/was low! Low oil pressure is not going to cause bearing failure in 1.2K's. If the pump pick up in the sump was completely blocked, there would be no pressure, and there would be warnings coming up on the dash. And the sump is already off, with the mains caps removed!