e85 ethanol petrol

[Simonn]

gday guys, I'v heard around that e85 petrol can give a peformance gain. Anyone used it before in there ecotec v6's or any engine for that matter?
thanks

[Cobez]

It can, but i wouldn't use it full time. I have heard it can root gaskets up pretty quick. Not sure how true that is though.

[delcowizzid]

e 85 you need bigger fuel pump bigger injectors bigger fuel lines and heaps of other stuff which makes the car an e85 only ride in the end .this is due to the fact you have to pump the stuff in at higher rates to petrol.

[Cobez]

Really? Is that because it burns up alot quicker than premium unleaded etc?

[vt s]

Do they still sell e85 anyway?
I havent seen it round in a long time..
E85 can and most the time will give small increase in power.
In comparison E85 would be rated somewhere around 105 octane.
As said though its something you can just fill in your tank and run.
E85 needs to run about at about 9:1 air fuel ratio compared to say petrol which runs roughy 12:1.
So to run the E85 you will need your car to be tuned for the right air fuel mixture.
So in the end its not something really worth doing unless you have a purpose built car running high horsepower.

[Cobez]

Yeah, Shell here in Victoria still sell E85. Not sure about other states. I'd assume so.

[vt s]

Yea im sure theyve stopped selling it here in nsw, well i havent seen it anywhere..

[Cobez]

Wouldn't be surprised if they stopped selling it here in Vic either. They have it right up the top on the fuel price tower all lit up and is all highlighted as the cheapest petrol, then people pull in and chuck it in their tanks not realising it's E85 and not unleaded.

[vt s]

lol do they have any info on the pumps or anything?

[Cobez]

Not sure mate can't say i have had a good look. I know on the price tower it says "E85" in tiny letters next to the price, you can barely see it. Shifty bastards.

[Tsunamix]

Fact - E85 Has higher Octane rating than E10
Fact - E-85 has a lower energy density than Petrol. This means you need to burn 30% more to get the same amount of energy out of it as petrol. this is why you need bigger injectors, fuel lines and fuel pumps.
Fact - E85 has a higher alcohol/ether content than petrol. Current standard rubber fuel lines and seals designed for Unleaded will be degraded more rapidly by E85 fuels. Steel can suffer some corrosion but only in the presence of moisture. Copper lines will not.

By the way - The 'perfect' stoichiometric ratio for fuel is actually 14.7:1 . 12:1 is a Safe, slightly rich burn which limits the chances of pre-ignition, but doesn't yield maximum power. E85 is FAR more resistant to pre-ignition so can be run much closer to it's 'perfect' ratio which is 9.7:1

The big power advantage comes from running more aggressive timing, which you can do more safely with E85 than ordinary Unleaded - even the unleaded racing fuels.

Once you have convereted the fuel lines to handle E-85, the only thing you need to do to go back to ordinary petrol is a different tune - and in some circumstances - different fuel injectors.

In an ecotec, changing the injectors takes about one hour, and dropping in a new memcal about 5 minutes.

There are small environmental gains from E-85 as well. You generate about 2% less carbon (it's actually 30% less carbon per litre, but you burn 28% more), but more importantly - E-85 is locally made from renewable sources - rubbish, grains and sugar cane mulch. It reduces our dependance on OPEC / Crude non renewable oils, and therefore the emissions spent in transporting them to Australia.

If you can in way, shape or form use E-85 - then USE IT - it's very good for Australia.

Suffice it to say the new commodore will have an E-85 variant.

[Cobez]

Shit, good info there mate!!

[wetwork65]

Hmmm - you will get worse fuel economy because it has a low energy density (kJ per gram)
Thus it should be really cheap to buy - not a couple of cents per litre less. My cars ran erratically on the stuff.
Remember that you cannot separate water from ethanol and it will cause water residual in your fuel system- there is a "pinch point" which you cannot distill past.
I am a Chemical and Materials Engineer (now a Mechanical Engineer) and have studied exactly this subject in the past.

[Tsunamix]

Your point about water in Ethanol is well taken.

Some people recommend a low point drain in the fuel tank, Because water is more dense than ethanol. if you get rubbish E-85 with a high water content, then if you let it settle for an hour, a low point drain will remove some of it. Not all.

Yes your economy will suffer on E-85. You have to burn 30% more to get the same work done. But - pollutants are very slightly less, overseas dependancy is non existant, your backing australian growers over saudi oil drillers, your backing the australian sugar industry indirectly but in a big way, it's renewable, it does offer performance benefits, and like any developing resource - the filtration / seperation techniques will improve as the market grows.

[Simonn]

sorry but is e10 and e85 the same thing?

[Pub247]

no one is 10% the other is 85% ethanol

[JacksonVX2]

No. E is Ethanol and the number is its percentage to petrol. Therefore E10 is 10% ethanol to 90% petrol. E85 is 85% ethanol to 15% petrol. Its not yet possible to run straight ethanol. I would'nt recommend using E85% without having your ECU updated first. I know thats what needs to be done with newer cars in order for them to idle properly on the stuff

[TMM]

If you can in way, shape or form use E-85 - then USE IT - it's very good for Australia.

It's a terrible waste of our water supply though if grown in drought affected areas :/

[1991_Vn2nV]

Your point about water in Ethanol is well taken.

Some people recommend a low point drain in the fuel tank, Because water is more dense than ethanol. if you get rubbish E-85 with a high water content, then if you let it settle for an hour, a low point drain will remove some of it. Not all.

Yes your economy will suffer on E-85. You have to burn 30% more to get the same work done. But - pollutants are very slightly less, overseas dependancy is non existant, your backing australian growers over saudi oil drillers, your backing the australian sugar industry indirectly but in a big way, it's renewable, it does offer performance benefits, and like any developing resource - the filtration / seperation techniques will improve as the market grows.

E85 is a dead end. Simple. Its just a matter of doing the math. If all of Australia started using E85 in 5 years time, we would not have a.) the room or b.) the water to produce enough of it.

[delcowizzid]

thread dig for anti-ethanol vid that isnt about car parts failing good watch YouTube - Myth: Corn Ethanol is Great

[acarmody]

Interesting video there.

[paynetrainvy]

Very interesting video. In my personal opinion I don't like ethanol, ran it once or twice an my car was running like shit, ran two fuel tanks of premium an it was running right again.

[wortus]

The new Commodores that can run up to E85 have an alcohol sensor in their fuel tank and the ECU can use the correct settings based on this. I read on a web site that in say a VY E85 won't damage the fuel system components but the injector pulses can't be made long enough to get enough fuel in and the ECU won't be able to keep the oxygen sensor circuit where it wants to be and register a fault. There is a conversion box you plug your injector leads into then plug it's leads onto your injectors and it allows you to increase the injector pulse to use E85. I don't know if you need a bigger fuel pump on a VY, probably not as remember a lot of fuel pumps straight back to the tank via the return line, the VZ however uses fuel on demand and has no return line.