Intermittently dead, will not start, totally silent - battery OK

[cookg01]

Hi all.
My 1998 VT Exec has been 100% ok for 8 years. I have left it a few times when travelling - sometimes for months, never had a problem.

It's a NZ Commodore, currently garaged in NZ, and I'm trying to sell it (I've now moved to Oz)
After returning from a recent trip away for a few months, it has a problem... it occasionally does not start - usually of course at the most awkward moments like when I'm getting it inspected by a buyer or at a fuel stop!

Symptoms;-
It strikes when the engine is cold or hot. When I turn the key, there is not a sound. No click, no dimming of lighting, no indication at all that there is a load being applied and the engine is trying to do something. It's as if it's a logic problem - i.e. somewhere something electronic is saying "No Go"
I then leave it alone for a few hours and try again and suddenly it springs into life.
It's the same symptom that would happen if you leave the auto drive stick in gear. I mentioned this to Holden and they said it was very rare and would take a lot of work to get to the contact.
All electrics are fine.

I have tried;-
New battery
Charging the key (leave it in ignition for 6 hours+. (I have 3 keys, problem does not seem to be related to a key, but I could be wrong)
Checked out by Holden (including starter motor check) They could not find a fault. Murphy's law it did not fail when with them for 2 days.

I'm stumped. Anyone heard of this before?
Thanks.

[BOGANV8]

I would look at the ignition switch behind the barrel. Also the key does NOT charge via the contacts it is only for the BCM to read...

[lufkin]

this has happened on my calais before, and normally notice the red blinking security light is blinking, i simply just lock the car while sitting in it, unlock and it works straight away, but yeah i have sat there for ages trying to start and absolutely nothing, then lock/unlock works straight away

[cookg01]

Thanks guys. Will try the lock/unlock (but think I've already tried that). Yes the ignition switch could be a "starter" (pun!) it does make sense that a loose contact or wire there would cause the intermittent fail. I will try this when I get to the car (in just over a week). Just need to find out how to take that barrel out..

[codeunknown]

i have also seen sometimes where its not a key security thing....
its a crank sensor.....check this out...
cause before they die ...this is sometimes how they die....

or bad earth strap.....check and clean and add a new one if need be ..and check earth on cars computer...

or a bad starting relay...that needs to have power run to it first to heat it into action....
try changing the relay as well

[sleepa]

Battery leads are often overlooked. I had similar problems when my leads were a little loose. You could have a lead slightly disconnected inside the terminal clamp or something.

[codeunknown]

agreed with above ...and it could be a built up of corrisions on the terminals either on the battery end or cable end...

[cookg01]

Thats great- I was hoping this site would give me a bunch of ideas - I will report back in a week or 2 when I finally (hopefully) find the answer - meanwhile keep those ideas a-comin! Thanks again guys.

[chooka03]

I can tell you what the problem is.
I went through this a few months back. Its the computer that talks to the key thats had it. The BCM "Body Control Module"
It cost me $490 for the new BCM + 2 new keys (which I needed anyway cuz the rubber had gone out of both keys) that was installed.

Did all the leaving the key in for hours on end etc etc.....nothing.
Holden then said it was the BCM so i go it towed to an auto eley and problem solved.

[codeunknown]

chook i hope your wrong...ouch ..sounds like some bucks..there...m8...

and by the way you can get replacement buttons ..non rubber so they last better off ebay
and we worked out mr minit does the cheapest replacement keys than old man holden....
even if you get old man to make 1 and you can get mr minit to clone it cheap...
if your the owner....have holden give you the secuirty code numbers mr minit can do them that way too !

it could be your battery in the keys is dieing............not the bcm error...
so get a bakup key done ...first ...it cost you $100....and see if that fixes it...

ok m8

[cookg01]

Well that was scary Chooka... but this was mentioned as a possibility by the workshop manager when I had it tested with Holden, although they could not repeat the fault at the time so were not sure. I will compile a list of tests and work from the cheapest and leave this to last. Knowing my luck, I have a feeling this will be the problem.

[Drewie]

It's the same symptom that would happen if you leave the auto drive stick in gear. I mentioned this to Holden and they said it was very rare and would take a lot of work to get to the contact.
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If it is the neutral safety switch have you tried wriggling the 'T-bar' around whilst trying to start it, or tried starting in neutral instead of park? Maybe check the wiring at the solenoid on the starter motor to see if current is getting there as the key is turned to start, to rule out the ignition switch, if there is current at the solenoid as someone turns the key for you more than likely the starter motor. I had a similiar issue on an old VC Commodore and it was the starter motor solenoid, exact same problem, turn the key and nothing dead as, new starter motor and all good.

[chooka03]

Ah...after reading your problem again, perhaps (and hopefully) its not the BCM. I say this because I noticed you said "sometimes" it starts.
When I had my issue with the BCM it just NEVER started. So maybe its not the BCM.
I knew about Mr Minit being able to clone keys and provide new ones, but In my case that wouldn't have worked. If I were more technicaly mined with newer cars, I'm sure the BCM would have been easy to change out myself, but I need a car for work and just didn't have the time to fumble my way through it.

I don't take my car to Holden anymore (haven't for a few years) as they are just rip offs unfortunately. That and a very bad experience with Eagers Holden Newmarket ( Brisbane ).

I wish you luck mate and hope its something cheap and easy to fix

[codeunknown]

and drewie one can sometimes be aided with a faulty wire or 2 or sh#tty contacts in the key ..ign switch
and hence why you some cars that have a manual switch placed in them...

sometimes by the auto sparkie...why cause it fixes the issue that comes and goes only !

the net safety switch can be grounded / but its dangerious...from then on...

[cookg01]

Thanks Chooka for that extra info.

Yes Drewie tried wiggling the drive stick, also neutral - no sign of life there. Holden checked out the Usual Suspects e.g. solenoid/starter electrics, although I may re-visit this.

Every fault I've every had with cars non-starting there has always been a slight noise... small click, grind/crunch whatever, so this has really got me puzzled.
I'm only a layman with regards to car diagnostcs, but after looking at all the replies here I'm taking bets on the earthing theory.... seems the most logical that there it a loose/dirty connection not allowing a big current draw. If it was the computer/BCM like you say Chooka it would either 100% work or not work, at least thats what I reckon too.

Thanks all for your replies, will report back next week when I get it checked out.

[cookg01]

It was the "BCM PCM Linkage"
These two computer modules had stopped talking - after a reset it all works.
I don't know how they did this, but it's well documented doing a Google search, for example...
Holden Commodore LS1 PCM Reset
(I'm not sure if thats the exact procedure Holden used, or even if it's the exact procedure for my car, but I have included it as an example for anyone else suffering this problem)

Sometimes I wish I could go back to my Mark 1 Cortina!!! No bloody computer glitches there!

Thanks for your help guys.