Noise that wont go away!!!

[vk3800]

G'day all.

Have slight problem with my VX S.

Had a noise coming from the clutch/ gear box area. So went on the hunt to track it down. Eliminated the thrust bearing so it was down to clutch or gear box for the noise.
Replaced the dual mass system with a soild flywheel and clutch to match. Noise remained.
While we had the box out took it to gearbox man for them to have a look over, as there was some play in the input shaft. They said the front bearing could be on its way. So instead of having them reco the box, i got new box.
Put the new box in on weekend and guess what, that bloody noise is till there!!!!!

The noise happens when the clutch is out at idle and it can be heard while driving. No noise while clutch is in. Any one got any ideas on this.

[vs commo]

wat sort of noise is it a rattle or a bang?was the box new box u got new or second hand?did u replace the whole clutch?

[vk3800]

Noise is abit like a grinding or dry bearing.
Gear box is brand new.
Whole of clutch was replaced include spigot bush and thrust bearing.

[cyborgpirateninjajesus]

sounds like a possible spiggot problem, did you replace this when you did the clutch?

[vk3800]

Spigot is new as old one fell out when every thing was pulled out.
Noise seems to be getting worse so any ideas would be great no matter how strange they seem.

[Cameron P]

can you describe the noise and when it happens abit more ??

[vk3800]

Ill give it a go.

Noise happens when the car is idle out of gear. Put clutch in and noise goes away. I noticed this morning that i can also feel a vibration as the clutch engages. There is also a noise while your driving but i can't be sure its the same noise.
It sounds a bit like when a bearing in the water pump goes, grinding, knocking sound.

[damotheking]

i duno but i sorta had the same problem same noise sounded near the gearbox u said but i was wrong
u said any help would help so

try the big belt that goes around all ur pulleys
loosen the belt and spin the pulleys circle things to see if 1 is buggered when my car was in neautral
and of i took a nasty noise was coming seemed a pulley bearing was ####ed wen spinning under pressurethatcame that nasty noise would come sounded like my whold gear box was buggered

let me know how u go

[vk3800]

Im thinking that something has gone in wrong.

While playing with it over weekend it was noticed that even with the clutch on the floor it appears as though its still part engaged as its hard than it should be to get into gear and the tail shaft give a little twist at the same time (when putting it into gear).

[vk3800]

We think that we have found what the noise was, well put it this way its not making the noise anymore.

The new clutch was faulty. Only about 25-30mm of the clutch plate was in contact with the fly wheel and the thurst bearing wasn't making proper contact either.
So the brand new clutch is out and the old dual mass is back in and its oh so quite now.

Thanks to those that tried to help out.

[Cameron P]

good to know mate.

question, i got the same car as you... what did the solid flywheel feel like compared to the dual mass??

like the feel of it and changing gears etc etc

cheers

[vk3800]

When it first went in it felt great. Felt a lot more responsive then the dual mass. If it wasn't faulty i'd still have it in there put it that way.
Some people have said that they are noisy but i cant really comment on that due to mine not working properly, cause it was very noisy and was getting worse.

In other threads people have said that if you want performance over looks and sound then solid is way to go, but if you want it quiet and can deal with a little less performance stick with the dual mass.

As for changing gears i cant really compare as i put a new gear box in at the same time and is very tight compared to the old one. Although there would have been bout a week that i still had the old box in there and it felt good. But it would also depend on which gear box you have M35 or T5? I didn't realise till having to source new parts that you can get a VX with a T5.

[db_notso]

some minor gear chatter is pretty normal in most commodore manuals and is normal
best way to tell if normal noise is compare it to another car by hearing it.

low gearbox oil or incorrect oil viscosity will result in similar problems and premature wear of internals of box
if oil okay my guess is pilot bearing or throwout bearing
did you lube the shaft on installing throwout bearing? is it a new bearing? did you replace pilot bush/bearing on new flywheel?

this below from here
Clutch Troubleshooting
Abnormal Noises
Faulty clutch parts can make various noises. When an operator reports that a clutch is making noise, find out when the noise is heard. Does the sound occur when the pedal is moved, when in neutral, when in gear, or when the pedal is held to the floor? This will assist you in determining which parts are producing these noises. see below for what causes noise in different clutch pedal positions.

more useful info on clutches noise finding
HowStuffWorks "Common Problems and Other Types of Clutches"



An operator reports hearing a scraping, clunking, or squeaking sound when the clutch pedal is moved up or down. This is a good sign of a worn or unlubricated clutch release mechanism. With the engine off, pump the pedal and listen for the sound. Once the source of the sound is located, you should clean, lubricate, or replace the parts as required.

Sounds produced from the clutch, when the clutch is initially ENGAGED, are generally due to friction disc problems, such as a worn clutch disc facing, which causes a metal-to-metal grinding sound. A rattling or a knocking sound may be produced by weak or broken clutch disc torsion springs. These sounds indicate problems that require the removal of the transmission and clutch assembly for repair.

If clutch noises are noticeable when the clutch is DISENGAGED, the trouble is most likely the clutch release bearing. The bearing is probably either worn, binding, or, in some cases, loses its lubricant. Most clutch release bearings are factory lubricated; however, on some larger trucks and construction equipment, the bearing requires periodic lubrication. A worn pilot bearing may also produce noises when the clutch is disengaged. The worn pilot bearing can let the transmission input shaft and clutch disc vibrate up and down, causing an unusual noise.

Sounds heard in NEUTRAL, that disappear when the clutch pedal is pushed, are caused by problems inside the transmission. Many of these sounds are due to worn bearings. However, always refer to the troubleshooting chart in the manufacturer's manual.

[vk3800]

Thanks for the reply db_notso but this was a brand new clutch system that was making the noise. New flywheel, clutch plate, pressure plate, thrust bearing and spigot bush.

Original noise, what i thought was the thrust bearing turned out to be the front main bearing in the gear box. You can move the input shaft of the gear box by hand. Hence the new gear box. Local gear box place wanted $1800 to reco picked up brand new box for $2200.

There are heat makes on the flywheel from it only have less than 1/3 of the contact it should have and this is from less than 2000kms. There are also marks on the clutch plate from the thrust bearing indicating that it wasn't making proper contact.

[db_notso]

There are heat makes on the flywheel from it only have less than 1/3 of the contact it should have and this is from less than 2000kms. There are also marks on the clutch plate from the thrust bearing indicating that it wasn't making proper contact.

is this the old parts your talking about? im assuming anyway

what does the above diagnosis point you too now?

[vk3800]

Not that's the new parts. Clutch industries system bought from repco.

It was as if the fly wheel or clutch plate has a bow in it.

At the moment i have the old dual mass clutch system back in it and it seems to be running fine. Plenty on plate left and only really replaced it as the original clutch went at 95000kms and I was at 190000kms. We thought at the time that it could have been the clutch on the way again, but it turned out to be the main bearing in the gear box. Holden told me at 95000kms that the dual mass have a habit of only lasting that long.

[db_notso]

right depending on how the owner drives it i suppose
so noise is gone now with old parts refitted? but same (new) gear box?

if noise isnt bearing on new stuff (throw out or spigot) then it may be loose clutch plate springs...

[vk3800]

Noise is gone. Old clutch system with new gear box fitted.

[db_notso]

well had to have been a component of new clutch then

are the little springs on the new clutch plate loose?
or bearings noisy to spin by hand?