98 VT wagon Considering Gas Conversion

[bondy717]

Hi All,

Am considering getting the ol wagon fitted with a gas kit.

The engine is not toooooo bad it has done 220k and so am wondering if fitting an LPG would be a good idea, we do clock up a few km's each year both town drivnig and highway.

What is the rebate at these days,

Had a look at old posts but could not see any recent threads.

Cheers
Bondy

[MikeCuzzy]

Hey mate,

At the moment the rebate is $1250.

LPG Vehicle Scheme

As for whether it would be a good idea, first question: How many kms do you do per year?

Regards,
Mike.

[DAKSTER]

DO IT.
Make sure you get the more modern liquid injection setup - more power, better economy and less problematic than gas mixing and you can run a blower someday if you want, which you cant with a mixer. You're not after a high performance car anyway are you? You wont notice the difference in power from standard but you will pay half the price for fuel.

My last 3 large cars have run on LPG, I will never go back. I'm about to convert my dual fuel gas mixer to a gas only liquid injection setup.

[bondy717]

Cool,

Thanks for the advice,

I do about 20k per year on average and probably will do more with cheaper fuel per km.

[MikeCuzzy]

It'll take you more than 2 years to make back the initial capital of the system and then start saving.

I do 30,000km per year, and that was with very conservative driving. So I really want to upgrade.

[DAKSTER]

At todays (approx) prices, and making a couple of assumptions based on my own car...

assumption 1.

My car gets about 12L/100km on petrol, only goes up to about 13L/100km on gas. These figures are confirmed with manual measurements, not relying on the computer (although that gives a pretty similar reading).

assumption 2.

Your car uses a similar amount of fuel - ecotec vs ecotec. Mine might use a little less because its lighter. Yours might use a little less because of minor engine improvements from model to model. Flip a coin.


Current prices at my local servo.. 0.65/L LPG .. 1.52/L 91RON

20,000km on LPG at 13L/100km = 2600L @ 0.65 = $1690
20,000km on 91RON at 12L/100km = 2400L @ 1.52 = $3648

The difference - $1942/annum. Cost of a liquid gas injection setup ($4000 - $1250 rebate) = $2750. This means you should recoup the cost of the gas installation in about 17 months. After that, you are saving near 2 grand per year. Worth it?

Other factors to consider... my fuel consumption figures are dual fuel, and the older technology gas mixer. Because of the differing nature of the fuels, tuning is a compromise, so neither fuel is reaching its full potential either power or economy wise.

Since I'm switching to gas only, in liquid injection form, I'll be able to have the car tuned more precisely, and have a more efficient system, so I fully expect to use less than the 12L/100km that 91RON currently provides me with tuning compromises to suit dual fuel.

People who say gas is for BBQs have never had a car running on gas. There is little difference in power, if any, the fuel consumption is slightly higher, but fuel is less than half the price. In fact, because LPG is 110 octane, proper tuning should even increase the performance, not decrease it. Feel free to check the math lol...

again.. DO IT, you wont look back. ... and as a bonus, you will be helping keep the air we breathe breathable. LPG is a very clean green fuel.

[DAKSTER]

Another factor to consider.. of course the price of LPG will inevitably rise. So of course will petrol.

I guess there is the chance that the price of LPG will rise faster than the price of petrol, but current trends are the opposite, and it would need LPG to at least double in price while petrol prices remain static to reduce the advantage enough to even consider saying no to LPG.

The price of gas has barely changed over the last 3 or 4 years, but the price of petrol has gone through the roof, and that trend is growing.

Fuel delivery systems on petrol cars have been developed for years, and are utterly amazing now compared to the good old single barrel stromberg. Its only recently that people have made any significant changes to gas though, the mixer system on my car is pretty much the same as a 70s LPG setup. All of my figures are based on that now dated technology. Look forward to more improvements yet, more so than the already finely tuned petrol designs. The day of LPG has just begun.

LPG is 110 octane. Tune to take advantage of that - deliver the fuel well, burn it properly, and you have the potential to have significantly better power than petrol.

LPG has had the major disadvantage, until now, of an inefficient gas mixer fuel delivery system. Injection will change that, in the same way as EFI sent carbies into history.

[RK5TAR]

My VT sedan is on gas. And I love it. It has plenty of power for what I need it to do. If I am just shuttling to the supermarket and back I can get away with $15 for gas for the week. If I put $30 gas in it lasts me well over a week. The car had gas on it when I bought it 3 months ago. So I am lucky in a way that I dont have to try and recoup those setup costs back as such. My VR wasnt on gas and I never really thought it would be worthwhile getting it. But I am very happy now I do have this one on gas.

Just a question for those about the injection system. My gas system is 3 yrs old, how would I know if it is a mixer system or injection one?

[bogan_vk]

mines an gas too and i wouldnt have it any other way, cheap as to run no noticable loss of power but mine is straight gas using a gas research system, i highly recommend getting gas.

[DAKSTER]

RK5TAR - My engine bay is too embarrassing to photograph. This is one of Hozys pix. The bit inside the circle is the gas mixer. Yours may not look exactly like this, but its inline between the airbox and TB. Liquid injection wouldnt have one of these.

[jughead1]

I too am going to get my waggon converted to LPG within th enext few weeks.

We drive the car approximately 150 km - EACH DAY!!! (from the Central Coast to Sydney).

I bought a second hand system (old style mixer) on ebay for $660, and it will cost me another $1,000 to have it installed. Then I get $1,250 back - so the net cost to me is going to be about $400. With our current use, I will recoup the outlay within about 10 weeks!!

Wish we could afford the injection system, but that will cost around $4,000 to install (no second hand ones), and we just do not have that kind of money laying around.

Still, we only intend to keep the car for a few more years, then upgrade it, so we can live with the older system.

[monkeys437]

Current prices at my local servo.. 0.65/L LPG .. 1.52/L 91RON

Dont know about Brisbane, but in melbourne unleaded price is only that high for half a day before heading down as part of the pricing cycle. Most people that don't have company fuel cards get it for 15-16c per liter cheaper just by getting it on a different day.

I personally would only get an injection system. I had a car with an old mixer setup and It hardly saved me any money on fuel and I lost a heap of power.

[50LTRv8]

Big question for gas only car owners, have you ever been stranded without access to a gas bowser at a servo?

[TonyJZX]

most people run dual fuel so you just fall back on petrol

anyone in sydney good with LS1 conversions? been thinking about it...

[DAKSTER]

Big question for gas only car owners, have you ever been stranded without access to a gas bowser at a servo?

I'm not on gas only yet but I plan to be.

There are times in central QLD when I have had to switch to petrol to get to the next gas, but its rare. I could have avoided those by topping up at the previous opportunity instead of driving past it because I still had 3/4 tank. I just didnt plan.

I plan to have 2 gas tanks anyway when I move to gas only, just in case, but even now its no problem with planning, and it will only improve as LPG gains more users.

I agree though, it would be a right royal PITA to be out of gas with no petrol backup. Not like you can pour a jerrycan into it. I'm going to try to avoid that

[jughead1]

I used to drive Sydney taxis, and although I never ran out of gas, I know some who did. Some mechanics (especially those that work on LPG cars) have a cylinder (like a bbq or forklift cylinder) filled with LPG and they come out to your car, hook up the cylinder and re-fill your tank with enough LPG to get to a servo.

But they have a special licence for the tank. I tried to get one (I operated two taxis, so wanted to be prepared) but was told it was illegal to keep one.

[JoeFish]

for a 98 model commodore I say don't do it. I have asked numerous highly professional mechanics and they all said NO. I was looking into it myself as i do 700km a week as I am a car detailer but you'll find that it will be good for a while, but it will wear out your car...no matter what they say.

I have a VT commo and it has done 360k. I was told by numerous mechanics that all the valves will be worn down and you can do some serios damage to your headers etc.

Just get some other oppinions from mechanics who deal with this stuff all the time. ALso, it costs quite a bit to service and maintain the gas installation as well.

thanks,
Joe

[DAKSTER]

A gas service is 80 bucks, I do one maybe once a year, though it doesnt usually need it.

This is my 3rd lpg car, all high km cars, and I've had no problems. I do easily 700k weekly too, probably more.

[bricat]

I had a 351 Marquis with 3 gas tanks fitted. Was fantastic when towing the boat as you could get a fair distance withot refuelling. Also had L/cruiser on gas and travelled around good old Aussie about 14 years ago. Ran out of gas once only. These were the old mixer systems but were still very reliable as there was not much to go wrong. Currently have LS1 on gas injection and am completely over the moon with performance and cheap running costs. Also has been tuned, exhaust etc. It costs me about $32 to $36 to fill and I get 350 kms per tank. Gotta be happy with that.

[DAKSTER]

I had a 351 Marquis with 3 gas tanks fitted. Was fantastic when towing the boat as you could get a fair distance withot refuelling. Also had L/cruiser on gas and travelled around good old Aussie about 14 years ago. Ran out of gas once only. These were the old mixer systems but were still very reliable as there was not much to go wrong. Currently have LS1 on gas injection and am completely over the moon with performance and cheap running costs. Also has been tuned, exhaust etc. It costs me about $32 to $36 to fill and I get 350 kms per tank. Gotta be happy with that.

+1 to that. My ecotec can get me from Brisbane to Sydney for 60 bucks, and you wouldnt know you were running on gas if it wasnt so damn cheap to fill up. Will be even better with liquid injection.

Do you believe the power is actually increased over petrol with a dedicated tune and liquid injection?

[bogan_vk]

Big question for gas only car owners, have you ever been stranded without access to a gas bowser at a servo?

yes coming back from bendigo once went through 5 towns, all gas bowsers out of order i was shitting myself i was on empty its not like i could get a mate to come out with a jerry can only happened once ever though.

as for distance it cost me $40 worth of gas to get from melton vic to woodonga just over the border of nsw towing an empty 6x4 trailer. thats with a worked 202 auto with diff gears sitting on 3500rpm all the way at 110.