HID conversion in Vx
im wanting to do a hid conversion to my vx. i know i need a h4 kit but when i search for kits they say they are h4-3 blubs. what i'd like to know it the h4-3 kit will work in my vx. btw im doing a lo ho conversion so all the lights will be a white
Hand over the dog bikkies
my mates at work rave about hids and they have a point plus the kits are cheap
LOVE MY VT LOVE AUSTRALIA
mate i put hids in my vt came out great and h4 h3 kits i only put lows but it worked greta good result cherck out my my lights sebs 1998 vt berlina commodore
Hand over the dog bikkies
Yea mate they look sick. the cost is not much more to do the hi aswell the only thing stopping my is this bloddy h4-3 shit
LOVE MY VT LOVE AUSTRALIA
lol there not illigal my brothers a cop there is now law saying they are aloud and no law saying they arnt aloud mate the most you can get is a defect from a defect happy cop just make sure they dont shine in oncoming traffic eyes and you should be right my brother suggestes getting projector headlights im looking at getting a pair of projectors just looking out for a good second hand pair cheep lol
Hand over the dog bikkies
If your going to talk shit at least know what your talking about. We all have a brother/sister/cousin/mate of a mate who is a cop. HID's are illegal end of story.Originally Posted by SE85VT
Welcome to the internet where people have opinions that you might not like
Being defectable makes them ILLEGAL. They dont write a law for every individual possible modifaction to a vehichle. It simply falls under the Road traffic act.
If the vehicle is of a prescribed class (which by the Road Traffic (Miscellaneous) Regulations 1999, regulation 32 includes: prime movers; commercial motor vehicles; and trailers) the Police or inspector can examine the vehicle whether or not there is reason to suspect deficiencies.
What is a defective vehicle?
A vehicle is considered defective if it:
does not comply with the vehicle’s standards;
has not been maintained in a condition that it can be driven or towed safely, if it would endanger the person driving/towing the vehicle, anyone else in or on the vehicle, or a vehicle attached to it or other road users.
does not have an emission control system fitted, or has an emission control system that has not been maintained.
and blah blah further down the act.
that the vehicle is not to stand or be driven on a road or be sold or otherwise disposed of, until:
•produced at specified place for examination;
•a clearance certificate is issued by a member of the Police, an inspector or vehicle registration authority certifying that the repairs are done; and
•the Police, inspector or vehicle authority caused the label to be defaced or removed from the vehicle; and
As arbitrary as the difference between defect and illegal are, it is illegal to drive a defective vehicle on public roads.
And yourself being in NSW should know that your rules and regulations are not only much stricter than the rest of Australia, but also enforced with much more vigor.
Hand over the dog bikkies
Thank you Huntington.
Welcome to the internet where people have opinions that you might not like
oh, and they look like shit, but each to their own.
//There Ain't No Rest For The Wicked...
Ok, here are the ADR's regarding HID headlamps and normal headlamps...
Links here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
ADR 13
ADR 45
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles
6.2.9.Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex 8).
So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
Therefore, automatic self leveling is required, UNLESS the cutoff is as specified in the two clauses above (projector based and properly designed reflector based systems have this cutoff). (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp leveling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signaling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Links:
ADR75 - Headlamp Cleaners
ADR 77 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
ADR 78 - Gas Discharge light Sources
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher allowed on the passenger side) is a no go.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Leveling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
So there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self leveling (UNLESS it has the appropriate cutoff "exactly", as in projector based and properly designed reflector based systems "ADR APPROVED"), doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
Hand over the dog bikkies
Holy shit hozy.
Welcome to the internet where people have opinions that you might not like
Wow Hozy, all that and you forgot to mention they look like shit.
Way to make my post feel small, insecure, inadequate and poorly researched.
The OP asked if a certain HID kit will fit in his car, not if there illegal or not.
Who gives a #### if there illegal anyway, people still drive around with them and opinions are useless, keep them to yourselves.
Hand over the dog bikkies
Now now fatmoe, Hozy didnt offer an opinion he cited facts, and backed them up with relevant documentation. It is for the op and the op only to make his own decision.
No precedence was given to allude either Hozy, Wraith or myself into believing that the op was aware of said restrictions in terms of installation of HIDs, and no there is no harm in expanding on the information and resources the op has specifically requested.
Although I did offer my opinion in regards to the appearance of HIDs on an older model commodores, the heart of my post was also citing facts, although as Hozy has pointed out, my given facts are situational, and a more refined level of research was required on the topic.
However if one was to point out something "useless" that should be "kept to ones-self", I would suggest it is your brassen intervention into the topic, and brash approach regarding "opinions" of the posters.
Good day.
To the OP... apart from the illegalities..HIDs are bright but the way they work in a normal headlight takes away the gains. They have light scatter which can blind oncoming drivers. This can be corrected somewhat by aiming your headlights low and left, but in doing so you lose the gains of the better light.
Its caused by the position of the light source within the reflector. HIDs are physically longer globes and the light source.. the bright part of the globe.. doesnt sit in the right place within the headlight. All the high/low function does is activate a solenoid which changes the position of the light source to get high or low beam, they dont have separate filaments like a H4 does... but both high and low do not sit correctly in a normal headlight.
A better option is to use Phillips Extreme +100 globes. These things really are bright and white, but the design of the globe matches the design of the headlight, so A: the headlight doesnt need readjusting to compensate, B: the lights will be legal and C: the net gain in light is actually considerably better than HIDs.
I've tried them all in my VS, more info in my ride thread. I'm not looking for pretty blue colours, I just want the best lights I can have.
Yours is a VX which means you can buy projector lights aftermarket for it, which arent available for my VS. These will help the HID work better, but still wont make your car legal unless it also has self levelling suspension and headlight wipers. Self levelling is critical in avoiding blinding of other drivers, and because of the intensity of the lights, just a tiny bit of dirt on the headlights can cause light scatter and also blind other drivers... hence the requirement of headlight wipers.
Just buy some Phillips Extremes, you will be happier with the light they provide, and you wont be breaking the law or pissing off other drivers. You'll also save money.
If all this hasnt put you off HID, then at least use your brains and stick to no higher than 5000k. Blue might look cool, but its a cop magnet and the light is not as effective as a nice white light. 4300k is the whitest and brightest.
I wouldnt be listening to the family cop - as has been thoroughly proved above, he is completely wrong. Go with Phillips +100 Extremes.
Last edited by DAKSTER; 28-01-2012 at 04:39 AM.
Donati..Whoa Green
+1 to Phillips +100s, awesome bulb, got them in my VX. On eBay for about $45, its almost twice that at Autobarn.
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That was completely irrelevant to what I said. He did not want an opinion as to how they would look or if they are illegal, I'm sure the OP knows how they look hence why he is asking if this kit would fit his car.
Answer his question more thoroughly and cut the crap about your self confidence.
Good day to you too I'm off to bed now.
Fatmoe, your condradictions leave me puzzled, you stand tall for the ops right to have question answered solely as he had read it, and shoot down myself and several others for daring to deviate from the question and discuss any related side topics as they arise.
Yet now you inform us that we should have answered his question more thouroughly, which is what I was led to believe had been done in the first place when we expanded on discussion topic and discussed the legalities of said modifications.
I am not sure where your self rightous defence of the op has come from, as he has shown no ill feelings towards the community for allowing a discussion to develop and deviate from the the question as written. Further more your input in the thread is the only posts that completely deviate from the topic.
Have a good sleep, I presume you are a shift worker, judging by the hour. I feel your pain.
Dakster, your a wealth of knowledge, I have the Phillips +100s in my SS, couldnt be happier with them, wish I had of looked on ebay now though, I did pay a spot more than $45 for them.
Thanks, I am just someone who already tried all the other crap. All I wanted was the best lights money could buy. I tried it all, and in the end I arrived at more modern aftermarket lights (not projectors, they arent available for a VS, but actually pretty similar to a standard VX headlamp...) and the Philllips Globes. I've learned by making the mistakes already, just trying to save the OP the same pain and expense.
I actually still have HID in the high beams though, if you can leave the headlights normally adjusted then they are freaking awesome. The only problems of course are that they are still illegal, and you will blinding oncoming drivers with them, so I only ever use high beam on the open country highways I often travel, and dip them early.
I've made an additional mod, probably illegal but I think I would be pretty unlucky to be caught, and which I consider a safety feature anyway.. I have isolated the high beam HID lights from the normal high/low H4 lights, so they can be disabled with a switch.. like spotlights.
Last edited by DAKSTER; 28-01-2012 at 07:04 AM.
Just dont.im wanting to do a hid conversion to my vx. i know i need a h4 kit but when i search for kits they say they are h4-3 blubs. what i'd like to know it the h4-3 kit will work in my vx. btw im doing a lo ho conversion so all the lights will be a white
The glare into oncoming traffic is horrendous and can cause blinding the eyes and cause an accident
The Commodore lense are not designed for it and yes it is illegal.
If you want pretty lights, put LED strips on ya car instead but do every road user a favour and do not put them in your car
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Cheap,nasty&full o shit
The H4-3 they're referring to would be a P43base globe (which is standard H4). Are the illegal? Yes absolutely. I've got HID's in my VT Calais(low & high beam & fog lights). 90% of my driving is done at night and I've never been flashed by an on coming driver. I've been stopped by police on numerous occasions and the only thing that's been said about my lights is "turn off your fog lights". But then again I don't drive like a tool or give them an excuses to go hard on me. So to the OP, use all of this info to make your own decision.
LOVE MY VT LOVE AUSTRALIA
as i said projector headlamps oh and btw my bro is nearly a cop he has been at golburn for awhile now anyway get yourself some projector headlamps as for the self cleaning the projector lighjts are in the seeled case of the headlight therefore no dust canland on the lens causing it to shine in to oncoming traffic plus yes they may be illegal but they dont give a shitabout them. oh and did anybody see aca about 3 or 4 nights ago when they where takeing people to the pits a few of them had hids not one got a defect for them theres proof about how much they care Rev-head roundup oh and the first at car thats not a subaru its a lancerSo there you go, after all the lawyer speak and technical jargon. If the HID fitting isn't self leveling (UNLESS it has the appropriate cutoff "exactly", as in projector based and properly designed reflector based systems "ADR APPROVED"), doesn't have a headlamp cleaning system and isn't white (as in, white), then it's illegal.
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