Does The VX-Commodore Have a " Self-Learning " Computer.??

[Lethal_1]

Hi there ...

Recently ... I just had my VX serviced ... 130,000K actually ... It also got Engine Mounts replaced too.!!

Anyway ... When my Mechanic replaced the Engine Mounts ... He had to " Dis-Connect " the Battery.!!
I was told that my VX has a partial " Learning Computer " ... In this case, the " Throttle " is part of this learning.!!
Because he disconnected the battery for 4 hours ... I have now lost my learning computer settings, & now the car " Feels " gutless now.??

Of course it's not ... It just feels like it ... But I can " Definately " FEEL the difference.!! - It's definately not the same as B4, before he replaced the engine mounts.??

* How do I get this power back " Faster " ... Without having to make it learn all over again.?? - It's done 2000K since the service.!! - Only ever used Premium-ULP.!! - Any Idea's.??

[Hot-Rod]

firstly i am suprised ur running premium ULP. How much u paying per L, close to 2 bucks?

Secondly i think the learning computer has to do with the throttle/ gear box. The faster u drive the faster it will try to change plus holds lower gears for longer to allow more power but at a cost of economy. I am guessing to get better performance in the first 10 mins of driving drive harder so it programs ur driving habits and setups the car for ur driving style.

other then that i got no idea.

[feg]

By the year 2029 all early model commodores will become self aware, and the panic to shut them down, they will launch a massive counterstrike!

Seriously, check that all the little hoses under the throttle are plugged in. The link between moving an engine and unplugging the battery is not what you are suggesting here. I would say something else has been bumped or dislodged.

Also can you measure the performance by driving it and watching the speedo? does it do a reasonable time, close to what the normal time from zero to 100 is? Because if this is true maybe it is just that the engine does not vibrate and gives the illusion of being sluggish, when it is just going about its business alot more smoothly and quietly perhaps?

Also running premium ( according to the ads ) is cleaner air for us to breath less sulpher.

[Jesterarts]

2000km after the service it should be back the way it was...

Normally within a days driving my car used to feel more aggresive than just after a reset.

I think feg might me on the ball about less engine vibration... same as when people remove their resonator and then say the car is faster... Not really... just more noise to it SOUNDS faster..

Good luck

[Lethal_1]

Thanks " Hot-Rod & Feg " ...

Yeah, I know ... And I am normal, the prices @ the moment R FrEaKiNg me out too.! - ( I'm paying around the $1.45 P/L ) (QLD)
But I do agree that replacing the Engine Mounts, He (or his apprentice) may have bumped something else on the way.??

Just a quick background ; (It's an Auto, has SS-Cold-Air-Induction, 2.5" Extractors all the way thru, K&N Filter, ECU-Upgrade & the 'Power' button is always on 'Power')
* I used 2 B able 2 floor it, & have the power straight up.! - NOW, it's smooth etc, but has surges @ 5000-5500rpm ... Gradually it's surging in other rev ranges too ...

Anyway ... I've been flooring it all the time ... Just to speed up the " Learning Computer " ... So how long does it take to " CatchUp ".?? - Please don't tell me it's gonna B 10,000K's.??

And " Feg " ... Thank Goodness For That.!!!! - ( They'll all be " Self Aware " by 2029 ) - Cheer's.!!
Looks like I will have to check everything myself like U have mentioned.?? - Coz I have never had to B4.!!
I'll have to pull over on the side of the Freeway, & get my Girlfriend to time my 0 - 100klms times, & post here later.!!
I have noticed since the Engine Mounts being replaced, it has been running alot smoother, so I guess it " Feels " sluggish, but it's not.!!
I'm running SHELL V-Power @ the moment (with the 4c p/l discount, yeah I know, it's a Con), and I thought running Premium, I'd get better performance.??

Cheer's " Jesterarts " ...
Maybe it is just the vibration, or lack of now, that makes it " Feel " like it's sluggish.??
I'll give it another 1,000K's & bail my Mechanic up for the Surges I get here-and-there.?? - Thanks Guys.!!

[AttaBoy]

Throttle cable stretched??

[andyman]

I'm paying around the $1.45

ha, i payed 1.67 for 98 the other day, i was 4 dollars short of joining the $100 club lol,

im gunna try harder for the next time round haha

[CANYONERO]

Ive reached a hundred in the VY before. sucks.

[nicko]

yep $106 three weeks ago

[feg]

I only ever seem to get 60 - 65 litres in mine, I could go further but don't like going to empty.

If you are going to spend the extra on premium try bp ultimate. A lot of people here recommend it, including me.

The main thing you are trying to do with premium is to try to stop the engine knock. this is mainly in forced induction engines. when the engine sensors detect knock the computer winds back the timing and will in effect slow up your engine. not sure the higher octane which is needed to help against this is useful in a NA engine. As stated earlier there are other advantages though less sulphur and pollutants apparently.... Although not sure it can help against all the diesels out there!

I think I've read that if you dislodge a vacuum hose of the bottom of the throttle body you can get odd issues like you are experiencing.

[nathans1987]

i pay about 100-110 every fill up today was 107 just use 98 youll get there in no time! if i pay less than $95 i consider it amazingly cheap! i havnt been driving long but my first car used to get $65 for 65L and it used to get alot further 650k-700k compared to 480 today from 64L

[greenfoam]

It's all in your mind

[Lethal_1]

Just a thought.?

Could my Mechanic say, plugin his Laptop or Computer to my Commodore-BlackBox ...
And fully set the CMOS / Chip, or whatever controls the " Learning Phase " to allow " Full Power ".??

This is probably what I'm after in order to " SpeedUp " the Learning Phase.!! - Is this @ all possible.??

[chargedvx6]

After you have driven the car for a few minutes the self learning will be complete mate. The ECU adjusts the fuel trim constantly from one micro second to the next. The self learning is more to adapt shift points and line pressure to the state of the auto tranny than anything.

Enjoy your car, it has learnt, trust me. The VT on ECU is so complex that we don't see alot of what it is actually doing to make our car better so unless you have warning lights popping up on the dash don't worry.

[Lethal_1]

It's all in your mind

GreenFoam ... No, It's Not In My Mind ... There's a DEFINATE difference B4 & after I got my car back.!!

After you have driven the car for a few minutes the self learning will be complete mate. The ECU adjusts the fuel trim constantly from one micro second to the next. The self learning is more to adapt shift points and line pressure to the state of the auto tranny than anything.

Enjoy your car, it has learnt, trust me. The VT on ECU is so complex that we don't see alot of what it is actually doing to make our car better so unless you have warning lights popping up on the dash don't worry.

Hang on a sec.??
Now I'm getting CONFLICTING views on how the " Learning Computer " side works.??
Your saying it's after " A Few Minutes ".?? - Yet others have said " I should of had it after my 2,000K already.?? " - Which is it really.??


* Now because I don't know, thats why I'm asking.!!
** But just letting U's all know ... The power is evident @ various point of the RPM range.!! - Slowly increasing as time goes by.!!
*** What I'm getting, is *Surges*, like a *Boost* @ different point's of the RPM, some more noticeable than others, but definitely a *Surge*

Is there anyway of *Speeding-Up* the " Learning Phase " the Computer does, that remembers the way I drive, that's easy to program maybe.?? - Any Idea's.??

[KiWi1]

Do you have a chip??

There is some theory in the "learning process" Its abit like the old excop cars had chips and power mods debate LOL. Are there really aliens in another galaxy etc etc?

Do another reset, disconnect neg terminal, have a ****, or a smoke wateva for 5min. Hook her back up, let the idle learn

Note: "With my VP, i hold the revs at 2500rpm for 5-10sec, just on startup for the idle relearn. Tomato, To"mate"o (u know wat i mean) some say do some say dont. Once settled i go out and do some WOT hardish driving (within speed liimits) works for me.

As above, some say yay, some say nay

Simon

[chargedvx6]

No **** mate, what I posted is factual not mythical. Just trying to help you out. The ECU has learnt, that is a fact. If you are getting surge through the range that's nothing to do with the ECU learning.

Check trouble codes and have a look at other stuff.

If you still don't belive me about the relearn ability of the ECU call Holdens' customer line on 1800 033 349

[KiWi1]

Who was that post meant for?

[feg]

Hey Lethal 1, if is that evident take it back to the mechanic and get him to road test it. Tell him your concerns. Have him look over the engine, to make sure everything is ok.

The learning phase is obiviously hotly disputed, but when you think it through it should be running, properly after 5 mins easy. When supercharged engines are run on normal ulp they say it takes 3 tanks of pulp before the engine management will let the engine run without the knock sensors retarding it. But for a NA engine your engine management should be making it run properly within moments of it idling in your drive.

check the error codes or get someone to look at it. If it is surging throughout the rev range the guy you took it to should be able to notice it. Any mechanic worth his salt, should notice things by even just listening to the engine.

[chargedvx6]

Who was that post meant for?

Sorry Kiwi, it was for the OP, Lethal son

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

The VX resets the idle at every ignition cycle, so there is no need to reset it manually. The PCM only "learns" fuel economy and gear changes according to throttle position, it then applies what it "learns" to try and get the best economy from the way you thrash it-sorry, drive it.

Did he just replace the engine mounts? I'm with feg, check that everything is plugged in. Air temp sensor on the airbox is a common one to dislodge.

Another thing, just type normally, the extra formatting you use makes it hard to read and is annoying.

[KiWi1]

An ex electrical engineer employee From Holden Who does his own work now, and does alot of work for LS1 Tuning/Workshops, is a friend of mine, i wont name his name, but ppl in the LS1 world here in Vic would know... Anyway, i will ask "HIS" opinion. Im keen to know.

Simon

[Lethal_1]

The VX resets the idle at every ignition cycle, so there is no need to reset it manually. The PCM only "learns" fuel economy and gear changes according to throttle position, it then applies what it "learns" to try and get the best economy from the way you thrash it-sorry, drive it.

Thankyou " Not_An_Abba_Fan " ... At least someone understands what I mean ...
The computer is not ' releasing ' the throttle completely for the way I drive, hence the *Surges* of power I do get.!
So yeah ... It is the " Throttle " that I am talking about ... But it still *Surges*, & that part it hasn't " Learnt " yet.??

An ex electrical engineer employee From Holden Who does his own work now, and does alot of work for LS1 Tuning/Workshops, is a friend of mine, i wont name his name, but ppl in the LS1 world here in Vic would know... Anyway, i will ask "HIS" opinion. Im keen to know.

Simon

Thankyou " Simon " ... I'd appreciate that ... Whenever U get the chance.!!

No **** mate, what I posted is factual not mythical. Just trying to help you out. The ECU has learnt, that is a fact. If you are getting surge through the range that's nothing to do with the ECU learning.

Check trouble codes and have a look at other stuff.

If you still don't belive me about the relearn ability of the ECU call Holdens' customer line on 1800 033 349

Thankyou " chargedvx6 " ... I don't know, that's why I'm asking.!! - And I know your trying to help.!!
How do I check the " Error Codes ".?? - ( Or is my mechanic the only 1 that can find these out.? )
* And not that I don't believe U ... But I will give that No. a call FRI ... Just for my own curiosity.??

Hey Lethal 1, if is that evident take it back to the mechanic and get him to road test it. Tell him your concerns. Have him look over the engine, to make sure everything is ok.

The learning phase is obiviously hotly disputed, but when you think it through it should be running, properly after 5 mins easy. When supercharged engines are run on normal ulp they say it takes 3 tanks of pulp before the engine management will let the engine run without the knock sensors retarding it. But for a NA engine your engine management should be making it run properly within moments of it idling in your drive.

check the error codes or get someone to look at it. If it is surging throughout the rev range the guy you took it to should be able to notice it. Any mechanic worth his salt, should notice things by even just listening to the engine.

Yeahh " Feg " ... I might end up bailing my mechanic up for that test drive so he can check it out.??
I'm not imagining it ... Had the car for 6 years ... U get a feel on how things go, I get it serviced to the " Tee " ...
I have also only ever put Premium ULP in ... Even with the current prices.!! - But I am thinking of switching from Shell-V-Power 98 ---> BP Premium 95.??

Do you have a chip?? - No ... I had an ECU Upgrade, my Chip is soldered in.!! - I was advised Not to get it removed, hence the Upgrade ... Got it done @ " The-Brock-Shop " (Underwood, Qld)

There is some theory in the "learning process" Its abit like the old excop cars had chips and power mods debate LOL. Are there really aliens in another galaxy etc etc?

Do another reset, disconnect neg terminal, have a ****, or a smoke wateva for 5min. Hook her back up, let the idle learn - Last time the Battery was disconnected, I lost whatever it learnt.!!
- It only got disconnected for 4-Hours because of the Engine-Mounts being replaced.!! - I'll wait a bit B4 I try the the reset.!!
Besides, I think the " Capacitors " only hold the charge for 30min.?? - So I think the 5min won't B enough.??

Note: "With my VP, i hold the revs at 2500rpm for 5-10sec, just on startup for the idle relearn. Tomato, To"mate"o (u know wat i mean) some say do some say dont. Once settled i go out and do some WOT hardish driving (within speed liimits) works for me. - Hmmm.?? - I might try that.?? - When I start, I just let it start without any throttle.!!
- So if I hold the throttle for 5-10-sec on start ... Then it might idle a bit higher for the Cold-Start after the " Learn ".?? - Is that right.??

As above, some say yay, some say nay
Simon

Thanks again guys ... Appreciate the feedback ... Just trying to learn how it all works.!! - Cheer's ... Lethal_1

[KiWi1]

Yeah when you remove the bellmouth restrictor in VN S2-VR, you need to reset the IAC. So I found it didnt hunt, chase or drop revs as much, when i held the throttle at 2500rpm for 5-10secs.

Simon

[Full Spectrum]

I know the VE was self learning..

I only just found out my berlina beeps warnings when i rev it past 4000rpm in park.