Vt Lpg Gas Conversion

[howie]

Well i was considering selling my VT 1998 S pac though common sense
im going to keep it. Fuel was killing me and as im a family man although not struggling it is a huge bill filling up every week.

Out of the blew told my oldies rang today and offered to pay for an LPG gas conversion in which was a shock as it was unexpected . They mentioned you get $2000 cash back from the governement, so i have a few question and im after so experience in this department in which i have non (i have read the other VX conversion thread in this section)

I have a mate who does these he said $2600 in which you get $2000 back, its this fair? seems to be?

He told me they are heaps better these days. I noticed is another thread the fuel filler location which is cool

He also said there is a button on the dash that you push for gas? Anyone got a pic?
He also said it just runs like a carby? is this bad? or just cheaper than injection?
Tank is in the boot (any pics boys) he said 65litres of usable gas?

Now my car has 250ks on it but runs great as ive always looked after it is this a problem? Dont want to get it done to find out is was a waste of cash

I have also read you cant run traction control (why)

I guessing im after answers to the question and some people with expenience to tell me im doing the right or wrong thing. Its going to cost me nothing so yeah i jumped at the chance but out of respect for my oldies cash i have these questions

So fire some response back at your lesuire

[hsvpgts]

GAS IS FOR BBQ'S AND FORKLIFTS - if you can't afford it then sell and and buy another smaller car.
250k on clock with LPG expect to be pulling heads off shortly after conversion as will burn out valve guides and then maybe later rebuild the bottom end when bearing go.
No traction on LPG as would cause big backfires when it was operating.

[Kikki]

I have a VX with a factory fitted system (370,000kms for the record) and TBH I wouldnt worry about it, you wont save a huge amount running LPG unless you do allot of kms on long roads, I find myself at the petrol station twice as often as I do running Petrol around the city, yeah country drives, cheap as chips! It takes ages to fill up so it is a pain in the ass. I will get a pic of the boot in the morning. From memory on idle 2.7L per hour running petrol V 3.2L per hour on LPG.

You cant have traction control because it shuts the injectors off and you cant stop the flow of gas until its too late.... That sounds confusing LOL!



.

[johnvtls1]

GAS IS FOR BBQ'S AND FORKLIFTS - if you can't afford it then sell and and buy another smaller car.
250k on clock with LPG expect to be pulling heads off shortly after conversion as will burn out valve guides and then maybe later rebuild the bottom end when bearing go.
No traction on LPG as would cause big backfires when it was operating.

why would u say buy a smaller car when clearly he said hes a family man.
i reckon go for it mate. im guessing u dont care to much about performance and all that. so for 600 bucks i reckon its a good deal.

[poweredbycng]

GAS IS FOR BBQ'S AND FORKLIFTS - if you can't afford it then sell and and buy another smaller car.
250k on clock with LPG expect to be pulling heads off shortly after conversion as will burn out valve guides and then maybe later rebuild the bottom end when bearing go.
No traction on LPG as would cause big backfires when it was operating.

What a load of bulls**t!

Firstly, valve seats made for unleaded petrol are hard enough to cope with the extra stresses of running on LPG. If the cylinder head was to go it would be because of the age of the engine, not as a direct result of an LPG conversion.

As for the loss of traction control, it WILL function correctly provided that a sequential vapour injection LPG kit is used and not a traditional mixer-type setup.

Regards,
Dave

[poweredbycng]

You cant have traction control because it shuts the injectors off and you cant stop the flow of gas until its too late.... That sounds confusing LOL!.

Not quite right.

Traction control does not function on LPG if you have a mixer-type gas system because of the way the gaseous fuel is delivered into the engine.

With multipoint petrol systems, the fuel is delivered into the engine via individual fuel injectors located close to the intake ports adjacent to each cylinder (hence a "multipoint system"). Because this system uses individual fuel injectors for each cylinder, it is possible to cut the supply of fuel to specific cylinders if and when required.

With single-point LPG systems, the fuel is delivered at or before the throttle body (at a SINGLE CENTRAL POINT - hence a "single-point system") much higher up in the intake manifold. Therefore it is impossible to cut fuel supply to individual cylinders.

Single-point LPG system cost around $3000 to fit these days, but if you can afford it, I would highly recommend fitting a multipoint sequential vapour injection kit because these systems address the key downfalls of single-point LPG systems described elsewhere.

Regards,
Dave

[Kikki]

Thats what I was told and no traction control on mine.... The thought of it all confuses me!

[bezz]

i got mine put on gas a few months ago and have had no problems so far.

I say go for it, i cover 500km a week and paying 40 bucks to fill up is a lot better than paying 80. I've had a few gas cars in the past, some I've done high km's with and as long as they are serviced properly they keep going forever. Don't believe all the hearsay about lpg... its all crap. Oh and also, I'm yet to see any power loss in my vt from running lpg. The systems they install have come a long way.

If you can try purchasing a near new gas system froma wrecker instead of buying new. I bought one that had been installed 3 months previous in a VY for a very cheap price. My installer was more than happy to put it in for me, and I ended up making money out of the conversion after the rebate.

[commsirac]

I have a mate who does these he said $2600 in which you get $2000 back, its this fair? seems to be?

No its not really fair on the rest of the tax payers, or a good move environmentally, but you'd be personally foolish not to grab it while it is there. The government should be phasing it out soon, but they have already suffered enough flak over the solar panel rebate(not that it is in anyway the same sort of thing), so they may hold out as the liberal pollies would try and make something out of nothing.

If cash is a concern, go with the mixer system rather than the svi. You'd need to cover ~400 000km to recover the additional outlay of the svi system on today's lpg prices.

[poweredbycng]

You'd need to cover ~400 000km to recover the additional outlay of the svi system on today's lpg prices.

BULL ****!

Regards,
Dave

[coo dawg]

Hey man, I got a VT S2 on GAS.
Bought it second hand with the gas in it.
Yeah man tanks in the boot, still have a fair bit of space for subs or what not.
And the switch to change it looks factory man. And as for the gauge, just uses your original gauge aye.

When im in gas it uses a bit more, and even a bit more when stopping and starting, however its cheaper for gas then petrol so its all good. When I want to boot it, just switch it to Petrol so i dont chew the gas.

There's my 2 cents.

[commsirac]

[BBULL ****![/SIZE][/B]

Regards,
Dave

Id of thought you would have been able to put something with some hint of intelligence/sophistication/logic/objective independent data together by now Dave to refute my advice on this regard, but obviously not.....

[poweredbycng]

Id of thought you would have been able to put something with some hint of intelligence/sophistication/logic/objective independent data together by now Dave to refute my advice on this regard, but obviously not.....

No, I would have thought *YOU* would have been able to post something logical or intelligent. I have repeated myself more than enough and I have backed myself up with calculations in more than one instance. I am getting sick and tired of you pushing your erroneous and misleading "facts". The level of stupidity and narrow-mindedness you display on these forums is beyond belief.

TELL ME THIS: how does a person with a PETROL-ONLY Commodore need to travel 400,000km before recuperating the cost of a $2500 ($4500 minus $2000) SVI install if the average LPG car owner who travels 20,000km per annum saves over $1000 per year? You'd be a total idiot if you believe what you have said!

Regards,
Dave

[commsirac]

No, I would have thought *YOU* would have been able to post something logical or intelligent. I have repeated myself more than enough and I have backed myself up with calculations in more than one instance. I am getting sick and tired of you pushing your erroneous and misleading "facts". The level of stupidity and narrow-mindedness you display on these forums is beyond belief.

TELL ME THIS: how does a person with a PETROL-ONLY Commodore need to travel 400,000km before recuperating the cost of a $2500 ($4500 minus $2000) SVI install if the average LPG car owner who travels 20,000km per annum saves over $1000 per year? You'd be a total idiot if you believe what you have said!

Regards,
Dave

Dave, you have brought nothing new to the table, even the same old insults, and your question ^ has been answered by me several times......you dont like it, but you haven't provided any rational logic to dispute it........why do I bother.
Howie, have a look at:
vx on lpg or
Gas Converted VT, and indeed the whole of that thread.

[Flat_White]

There Is Nothing Wrong With Gas!!! Why Cant All Of You See It???
You Could Save So Much Money With Gas, Why Are There So Many People Against It??

[poweredbycng]

but you haven't provided any rational logic to dispute it........

Whatever!

20,000km per year = 1,667km per month.
Let's say that your theory is correct and LPG consumption on both SVI and mixer is 15L/100km with petrol consumption being 12L/100km.
You would use 16.67 * 15 = 250L of LPG per month @ $0.70/L = $175.
Otherwise 16.67 * 12 = 200L of petrol per month @ $1.50/L = $300.

I cbf doing more precise calculations for you, it's not worth the effort. Tell me, if the average 20K km/annum motorist saves approximately $125 per month on fuel costs (before everything else is considered either way), how would it take 400,000km (or 20 years' worth of driving) to recuperate the cost of a $4500-$2000=$2500 SVI system???

Based on those figures, it would take the average motorist about 20 months to start saving on LPG if an SVI system is chosen.

Regards,
Dave

[vxcalais_01]

No its not really fair on the rest of the tax payers, or a good move environmentally, but you'd be personally foolish not to grab it while it is there. The government should be phasing it out soon, but they have already suffered enough flak over the solar panel rebate(not that it is in anyway the same sort of thing), so they may hold out as the liberal pollies would try and make something out of nothing.

If cash is a concern, go with the mixer system rather than the svi. You'd need to cover ~400 000km to recover the additional outlay of the svi system on today's lpg prices.

Another typical Commsirac hypocritical comment........I have a mixer system for last 3 years, and my traction control has always worked, i can see it, feel it and hear it engaging when it needs to. Say you have outlaid $3800 for the installation. Petrol is now lets be generous $1.50, and petrol $0.60. For my car, i was getting 650 on a tank of fuel and now i get 450-500 on a tank of gas. Thats 77% efficiency of petrol. Now if it costs me $40 to fill my 96 litre tank, which is really 70 litres or so, and $105 dollars to fill up on fuel (70 litres). I travel 30,000 a year from Clayton to Keilor each weekday, to and from work in peak hour traffic, including the Monash freeway to get these figures. Petrol would need to be at around approx $1.10 probably less for it to be worth me putting in Petrol. By that time when petrol is a $1.10 gas will be 35 cents and even more cheaper to run.

[south21]

I paid $2200 for my conversion, missed out on the rebate had mine fitted before the rebate came in. I do approx 1000ks a week and it took me 9 months to recoup the outlay I am ver happy with it just make sure you run it on petrol every now and then, I did not notice any drop in performance actually at a certain rev range it appears to have more torque. By the way my car had about 240000k on it now 345000k no problems.

keith

[howie]

Hi guys well i sure missed a bit of onfo in one day. Good to see you are all passionate. Im going to go for it. I think it a great debate. The overall cost to be is 600 yes (in which my oldies are weighing in) im not crying poor but they are just willing so it costing me and my family nothing. So technically im saving from the first tank of gas. When its done ill do a full NONE TECH review for the average punter.

With i few negative posts i was a bit concerned but some positive ones turned up and i will enter the world of a GAS car a first for me

[Blown V6 Hatch]

What a load of bulls**t!

Firstly, valve seats made for unleaded petrol are hard enough to cope with the extra stresses of running on LPG. If the cylinder head was to go it would be because of the age of the engine, not as a direct result of an LPG conversion.

Regards,
Dave

Try telling that to the people we not long ago charged $3500 to replace thier alloy cylinder head on thier Landcruiser......

To the OP, do yourself a favour get the money off your olds and put it towards something more usefull than an LPG conversion......like putting petrol in your car!

Won't be too long till your car is sat in a mechanics shop with the heads off it

[Kikki]

So I assume I would have a different type of valves in mine then, since my gas system was factory fitted?

[commsirac]

Whatever!

20,000km per year = 1,667km per month.
Let's say that your theory is correct and LPG consumption on both SVI and mixer is 15L/100km with petrol consumption being 12L/100km.
You would use 16.67 * 15 = 250L of LPG per month @ $0.70/L = $175.
Otherwise 16.67 * 12 = 200L of petrol per month @ $1.50/L = $300.

I cbf doing more precise calculations for you, it's not worth the effort. Tell me, if the average 20K km/annum motorist saves approximately $125 per month on fuel costs (before everything else is considered either way), how would it take 400,000km (or 20 years' worth of driving) to recuperate the cost of a $4500-$2000=$2500 SVI system???

Based on those figures, it would take the average motorist about 20 months to start saving on LPG if an SVI system is chosen.

Regards,
Dave

Dave we've been here before, you cant understand the previous posts ie:Gas Converted VT did you actually go back and have a careful read? it addresses the failings of your logic ^ ), maybe the link isnt working......so Ill go through the basics for you again:

There is nothing wrong with your arithmetic Dave, yes it would take about 20 months for the average(dont know where you got 20000km from, but unimportant for the sake of your argument) to start saving on LPG if an SVI system is chosen.
However, if they had got a mixer system, they would have been saving from about month 3 and be already 17months ahead in savings ($2000) ahead of the person with the svi system.
Again, its not actually about whether it ends up cheaper to convert to svi and use lpg rather than petrol(it certainly will), its about the total costs involved using LPG with mixer compared to SVI , the price of petrol really becomes irrelevant here(when I was driving an lpg only vehicle, I never even noticed what the price of petrol actually was!).
If going SVI you will be $2000 worse off (out of pocket-one has to hand it over to the lpg installer) from day one compared to the person that purchased the mixer system and on todays pricing of lpg will take ~400000km to recover that using an optimistic 5% efficiency gain from svi.
In summary for those that find all this difficult to follow, yes you will save a lot of money going to either svi or mixer lpg systems if you do enough km, however, you will have saved $2000 more by going mixer because the system is that much less to install!

[commsirac]

Another typical Commsirac hypocritical comment........I have a mixer system for last 3 years, and my traction control has always worked, i can see it, feel it and hear it engaging when it needs to. Say you have outlaid $3800 for the installation. Petrol is now lets be generous $1.50, and petrol $0.60. For my car, i was getting 650 on a tank of fuel and now i get 450-500 on a tank of gas. Thats 77% efficiency of petrol. Now if it costs me $40 to fill my 96 litre tank, which is really 70 litres or so, and $105 dollars to fill up on fuel (70 litres). I travel 30,000 a year from Clayton to Keilor each weekday, to and from work in peak hour traffic, including the Monash freeway to get these figures. Petrol would need to be at around approx $1.10 probably less for it to be worth me putting in Petrol. By that time when petrol is a $1.10 gas will be 35 cents and even more cheaper to run.

You have labelled me as being hypocritical(are you sure you know what it means), and you are entitled to have your opinion, but have said nothing about why and have just given some costings on your fuel use which proves something?......please explain?

Regarding your traction control(of which I havent commented upon previously), do you have a factory system? it should be disconnected when using lpg in the fact system(which is pointed out in the operating manual) because apparently it can cause backfires in operation

[Blown V6 Hatch]

Christie: No, i would dare say that your car would be identical to every other V6 that rolled off the assembly line. Holden V6's on gas are like picking a lottery ticket.....Some are really good on gas some are really bad. However, more often than not they will end up with the heads off them with VSR!

The bottom line is, there is only one engine i would recommend if you totally have to have a car on LPG and thats a Ford I6.....Anything else, forget it!

[Kikki]

Well, if that is the case, mine must be one of the good ones, no issues at all and its done 370,000kms!