Radiator Leak Problems (Electrolus)

[Hot-Rod]

Hello People,

Dramas in the VX factory,

Had radiator replaced in March. Radiator started leaking about 2 weeks ago so i took it back to the mechanic today to have it replaced under warranty.

Just received a fantasic call from the mechanic saying its electrolysis or however you spell it, CURRENT in the radiator causing the aliminium in the radiator to corrode therefore causing the leak in the radiator. When i looked at the radiator leak was coming from the drivers side front of the top of the radiator. Between the coils and the side of the radiator wall.

My question, is the mechanic full of BS as this apparently will void warranty meaning i will have to pay for a new radiator?

Any ideas as to how a current (electricity) would get into my radiator? If it makes any difference i bought and had installed professionally a U beaut sound system at the start of the year could this be causing the electrolysis?

Any other ideas, what do i do know? No point having the radiator replaced if it will do the same thing in 6 months?

[Zuicider]

electro... happens and does void your warrenty

[Hot-Rod]

Been doing some googling, people think its impurities in the cooling water that is causing the positive electrolysis which in turn roots the radiator fins as a result of current.

Does this basically mean the mechanic did a **** job. Also are radiators normally earthed or not??

[Zuicider]

normally not earthed, never had a problem with electrolysis on any of my commodores but mind u i always flush the system and never use tectoloy

[adelaide paul]

My understanding is that there it is cause by an electrical short that turns the effectively turns the coolant into an electrolite which can cause corrosion to the radiator and/or heater core. It's quite common across all makes and models

[Hot-Rod]

How do i prevent this electrical short?

By grounding the radiator to the body ???

Anyone ever had the same problem? what was the cause and end fix result?

[pablo]

It just happens that this afternoon, I picked up an old aluminium radiator core that is going to the scrap merchant, and noticed a warning label on the top that stated to avoid electrolysis, the correct coolant must be used!
Don't know what make or brand, just that it caught my eye, having not known about this before.

Pablo

[adelaide paul]

I suggest talking to an auto electrician

[commsirac]

How do i prevent this electrical short?

By grounding the radiator to the body ???

Anyone ever had the same problem? what was the cause and end fix result?

From what Ive read about it, it is very much trial and error in eliminating it. An extra accessory that is earthed in another location can cause it and the remedy can be to attach an earth strap to the radiator or detach it!.
Detecting whether it is happening or not is apparently easy.
there are lots of sites which will tell you what to do ie:Radiator leak sealer can sometimes cause more radiator damage. Get more information at Radiatorinfo.com.

[Hot-Rod]

From what Ive read about it, it is very much trial and error in eliminating it. An extra accessory that is earthed in another location can cause it and the remedy can be to attach an earth strap to the radiator or detach it!.
Detecting whether it is happening or not is apparently easy.
there are lots of sites which will tell you what to do ie:Radiator leak sealer can sometimes cause more radiator damage. Get more information at Radiatorinfo.com.

Thanks for the info,

Been doing further research on the issue. Apparently your NOT to attach a earth wire as this makes the current flow to the weakest point therefore causing the current to travel through the radiator until it hits to earth and disbands. Since my car and late model cars now have rubber holders between the radiator and the car chassie.

Electroylsis was more common in older cars that had metal clamps to hold the radiator in place, in my holden they used rubber holding clamps therefore eliminating stray current apparently.

Only possible cause now seems to be the wrong coolant used by my mechanic who didn't know any better. i've had the sound system checked by the installers who stated everything is grounded correctly.

Further to this point PEOPLE NEVER MIX COOLANT, IF YOU USED A PARTICULAR COOLANT KEEP USING IT WHEN YOU FLUSH YOUR SYSTEM, ALSO FLUSH YOUR SYSTEM WELL AND GOOD AS THIS CAN CAUSE ELECTROYLSIS IF NOT FLUSHED CORRECTLY with left over coolant in the engine causing current.

P.S ive been playing with a volt meter and have been getting readings of 0.49 or similar on the oil cooler piping can anyone tell me why this is?? attached is the picture of the rear of radiator with the cooler lines.

[commsirac]

P.S ive been playing with a volt meter and have been getting readings of 0.49 or similar on the oil cooler piping can anyone tell me why this is?? attached is the picture of the rear of radiator with the cooler lines.

Where are the two probes on the voltmeter being placed when you get this reading?

[VrWagz1]

Only just having a quick think about this, but if the radiator has copper tanks, then soldering a decent size wire from top tank to the bottom tank on both sides may help stop this, if my thinking is correct.

[commsirac]

Only just having a quick think about this, but if the radiator has copper tanks, then soldering a decent size wire from top tank to the bottom tank on both sides may help stop this, if my thinking is correct.

I dont think it will really matter what size wire is connected.....the current is quite small.
As I have commented on ^, the argument for earthing the radiator as a solution to this is not clear. Most new car radiators are rubber mounted and may or may not have earth connections. What is clear is that corrosion can be due to the coolant or changes in earthing arrangements

[VT-565]

lol not too many copper radiators out there I would imagine.
Just for your information, copper loves to eat aluminium. I live in an area where copper is quite plentiful and as such, the town water has a higher than usualy concentration. A stupid person would use town water and concentrate to top up their radiator. A smart person would use either premix or de-mineralised water and concentrate. I have never had a problem using good premix from whatever auto shop I choose to buy it from. I have heard of electrolysis also, but never told how to remedy this. Maybe try a sacrificial anode like they use on outboard engines...or swap your plastic-tanked coke can radiator for a good quality brass one.

[Hot-Rod]

Where are the two probes on the voltmeter being placed when you get this reading?

Negative probe on the NEG post on the battery, postive on the poi cooler lines that feed into the rear of the radiator.

I don't seem to get a reading when i place the postive probe into the coolant its self which is confusing. (Can anyone with the same car get a volt meter and place the neg on the neg of the battery and postive on the metal oil cooler pipes on the rear of the radiator and tell me if you get a reading??, in the above picture its number 2 and 6 that give a volt reading)

P.S brass radiators are less efficient then aliminium radiators. Also if i havn't combated the electrolysis problem then other aliminium parts in the motor would die a horrible death if i was to have a copper or brass radiator installed. It's a lot easier to replace a radiator as compared to internal components in the motor.

I'am just gunna wait it out and check the radiator every couple of weeks for any deteriation in the fins or cores.

Auto electricians really arn't very useful. One guy wanted to charge me $88.00 an hour to try and find the problem if there is a problem meaning he could look at my car for hours without success.

[VT-565]

Check the earth straps from engine to chassis. Could be on the way out, or just replace them anyway, they aren't too expensive.

In regards to efficiency, are you saying that a brass radiator in your commodore won't be good enough? You know why they use aluminium? Copper prices.

[commsirac]

You know why they use aluminium? Copper prices.

LOL.......no.

Its just a very expensive techique to actually brazen copper fins to the copper tubes of the radiator......much cheaper in aluminium.
Brass/alloy radiators cheap to make.....dont work as well as aluminium due to using solder to connect fins to the tubes.

[VT-565]

LOL.......no.

Its just a very expensive techique to actually brazen copper fins to the copper tubes of the radiator......much cheaper in aluminium.
Brass/alloy radiators cheap to make.....dont work as well as aluminium due to using solder to connect fins to the tubes.

It's a combination of things, brass needs to be thinner to be as efficient, thus reducing it's strength when compared to aluminium, so aluminium is more efficient pound for pound, but I think you will find in todays climate, metal price will be a factor too.

[commsirac]

It's a combination of things, brass needs to be thinner to be as efficient, .

Of course it will be thinner, its denser.........but where did you get that its strength will be reduced?

Of course if copper prices go to gold level it will be an economic thing.

I could ramble on about it all, but what use would that be......you obviously havent researched the matter and have no interest in the facts, or do you?

perhaps have a look at :Copper.org: Automotive - Breakthrough No-Flux Brazed Copper/Brass Radiator
or google: (radiator brazen copper brass aluminium thermal conductivity solder) to increase your knowledge.

[VrWagz1]

I dont think it will really matter what size wire is connected.....the current is quite small.
As I have commented on ^, the argument for earthing the radiator as a solution to this is not clear. Most new car radiators are rubber mounted and may or may not have earth connections. What is clear is that corrosion can be due to the coolant or changes in earthing arrangements

If you read my post, im not talking about earthing the radiator as it is on rubber mounts, all i was thinking of is connecting the top tank to the bottom tank with large wires so there is a very low path of resistance for any current caused from other earthing issues to pass through, so it dosnt flow through the mineralised water in the radiator itself causing the issues.
As i said it was only a quick thought and i posted it, after thinking about it, it will not be worth doing and it only stops actual current flow. If the issue is caused through a chemical reaction in a particular spot in the radiator it will never help anything. Demineralised water is a good idea, but i cant see it staying demineralised for long as it lives in a metal block.

[VT-565]

I could ramble on about it all, but what use would that be......you obviously havent researched the matter and have no interest in the facts, or do you?

Mate, I am very interested in the facts and it sounds like you know what you are saying, you will have to forgive my scepticism as you must look at where we are. Keyboard Mechanics and Engineers are very prolific around these parts. Check out this link: Radiator Technical Information
Has a bit of info on there too. I'm not here to start a war, just relaying on what I've read and been told.
Cheers

[commsirac]

Mate, I am very interested in the facts and it sounds like you know what you are saying, you will have to forgive my scepticism as you must look at where we are. Keyboard Mechanics and Engineers are very prolific around these parts. Check out this link: Radiator Technical Information
Has a bit of info on there too. I'm not here to start a war, just relaying on what I've read and been told.
Cheers

Had a look at your article, most of it seems good, but this bit:
Since copper is relatively weak, the tubes must be narrow in order to prevent the internal pressure from swelling or exploding. Aluminum is much stronger, allowing the use of considerably wider tubes.

Unfortunately, there is no evidence given to support this claim.......as there is none......or perhaps you can find some data to show that aluminium is stronger in the two critical areas of strength(shear and tensile force).

[VrWagz1]

^^^see table on typical tesile stregths about half way down. Appears to me that aluminium is the winner.

Tensile strength - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[commsirac]

Did you see the citations......... Truth is rarely do we have anything made out of one element and it is always an alloy, but comparing elemental copper with an unknown alloy of aluminium is not comparing apples with oranges......

Have a look at:Mechanical properties of metals

[VrWagz1]

yeah true, but one would assume they are using a fairly typical aluminium alloy and would not be ludicrously different to your typical aluminium alloy radiators. It basically shat all over copper.