Noisy Lifters (?)

[Riley]

g'day folks
I have a 3.8 VT Berlina (230k), had the car about 4 months and its been fine, took it to local mechanic for a service and general look around 3/11/08, mechanic liked what he saw (he's fussy). The guy went over everything and replaced thermostat, engine oil/filter, plugs, rear end oil, topped off the trans; checked the brakes the joints etc. I know he did a detailed job because he told me all that was wrong with it, down to the antenna not retracting and a driving light out and a leaky L/H manifold (disappears when hot).

Past 2 weeks, visited my mother about 45 min drive between rural locations, on leaving for home, slight tappet noise,... disappeared after 2 mins. Next start noise was a little stronger. Then each consecutive start it got less until it didnt seem to be there any more. The next Saturday same deal, 45 min run, noisy tappet on restart. This time it took longer to recover.

The next day the noise sounded very serious as it was loud and would go away until about 5-10 mins. Each restart it seems to get worse, and now its began to chug a little and sounds like its missing a bit. But when it warms up the noise is gone and the car is fine.

When idling the sound seems to come from the rocker covers, and with a hose against my ear sounds a bit like it comes from under the valley cover too, hard to be sure. It sounds like a lifter, or at least a noise about the same frequency, ....and its gone, absolutely gone when at running temp.

OK, Im not sure i can afford what ever might be going on, so I might have to repair the thing myself, so where do I begin to figure out what is going on

[vxcalais_01]

Alternate between a tin and thick fuel, like try a 5W40, then a 20W50 and see the difference ? Try some of that Nulon lifter free and see if its helps.......could also be something to do with oil pressure etc, but seems to me oil is eitehr nto getting to a lifter cause its dirty or its damaged from wear and tear.

If your LH manifold is leaking check that is not making the noise either. Should get that fixed as well.

[pablo]

I would be going back to the 'fussy' mechanic to get an opinion from him. I have read here on this forum where oil changes, from a different grade/brand can sometimes bring on the 'sticky lifter ' syndrome.

Pablo

[Riley]

thanks for the comments and advice guys
When I started the car today the lifter noise was only there for about 5 seconds, it seems to be a variable problem. Im operating on the idea that the oil change released some gunk in the engine, and Im trying Nulon to see if that works out.

I hope its ok because I seriously like this car, leather interior and all....

[skyper]

when u bought the car it most likly had thicker oil in it ,if u want to stop the ticking lifter put 50 grade in it,it will not hert it,i have run 50 in mine 4 the last 100,000 kmh,i no when it needs an oil change /// the lifters tick slightly at idle,the chugging is a lifter pumping up

[Riley]

ok, i figure feedback is an important part of the process

i tried Nulon, but it didnt work, i ran it for about 300kms, and figured i better do something before i damaged the engine. So I dumped the nearly new in the engine oil for Magnatec 10/40 weight oil, kept the filter. First start and it was clack clack clack, but all subsequent starts and the noise is gone. No problems since and its been in for a few weeks. Had a phone conference with a guy from Autopro and my mechanic to make a decision on it.

might help to say that the Nulon was visible in the old oil (red colour), it just hadnt mixed in at all.

many thanks to you guys for helping me out, it is greatly appreciated, and I learned something in the process...

[235rwkw]

when u bought the car it most likly had thicker oil in it ,if u want to stop the ticking lifter put 50 grade in it,it will not hert it,i have run 50 in mine 4 the last 100,000 kmh,i no when it needs an oil change /// the lifters tick slightly at idle,the chugging is a lifter pumping up

other way around, thinner oil pumps up lifters quicker because it gets there sooner than thicker oil when cold.

lifter cleaner works if has crap caught in lifter/s, if just failed it won't fix it.

[Riley]

in continuance

eventually i changed the oil to Magnatek 10-40 and the lifter noise went away, but now cooler weather has arrived, and with it lifter noise has returned

[vxcalais_01]

Riley, 1stly i dont believe you ran the Nulon cleaner for long enough. Secondly, try running a diesel oil like Delo 400, Delvac MX etc 15W40. High detergent package amy clean up some muck. Secondly, a better product that cleans seals, piston rings, lifters etc is Auto-RX. Look for it on the net, they have a Oz distributer but i got a few bottles from the U.S on sale when dollar was in the 90 cents U.S.

From the changing of oils, why not try a 5W40 ? Mobil 3000x2 5w40, Shell Helix Ultra, or Valvoline Synpower all have excellent oils.

Its a few months on now, how long and k's has the magnatec been in for ? Might be time for a change.....Also, what oil filters are you using ?

[WogBoyz]

i use mobile 1 5 - 50 fully synthetic in my v6 and it runs great no probs at all, thats another to keep in mind aswell they also have a mobile 1 0 - 40 but i was told not to use that one

[Riley]

Riley, 1stly i dont believe you ran the Nulon cleaner for long enough.

yeah i didnt like what was happening to the engine, it was in for over 300kms
so I acted on the oil change. I think what happened was the oil that the previous owner used was fine, when I had it serviced the mech used what he thought should be in it, that started my problems. When I changed the oil to 10-40, that fixed things up until the colder weather returned, now Im back were i started.

Secondly, try running a diesel oil like Delo 400, Delvac MX etc 15W40. High detergent package amy clean up some muck. Secondly, a better product that cleans seals, piston rings, lifters etc is Auto-RX. Look for it on the net, they have a Oz distributer but i got a few bottles from the U.S on sale when dollar was in the 90 cents U.S.

I shall check that out

From the changing of oils, why not try a 5W40 ? Mobil 3000x2 5w40, Shell Helix Ultra, or Valvoline Synpower all have excellent oils.

I shall do that at the same time..

Its a few months on now, how long and k's has the magnatec been in for ? Might be time for a change.....Also, what oil filters are you using ?

Its been in since Nov/Dec abouts, I have done something like 7000 k's since then, I dont know how to identify what the filter is.

The mech did say that both engine and trans were very clean inside, in fact we left the trans oil in because it looked so fresh, but I guess that isnt helping this particular lifter.

[vtbob]

Mine was the same prior to me finding out that coolant was getting into the engine oil.

Have you been topping up your coolant?

[vxcalais_01]

He cant see inside the engine unless only though the cap. ALways consider an engine dirty until you have cleaned it. I am sure its ok, otherwise it would run rough, leak oil, smoke etc. Thats what dirty engines tend to do. A few people have mentioned how these engines rarely get dirty as they have an excellent design, unlike some engines like a few Toyotas which are sludge prone purely due to design. Difference is a sludged Toyota will nearly run forever, a Holden or a Ford will die......

Anyways, 7000 is more than what you would want to take the magnatec, you have run it through the summer as well, so its done its job. Hopefully it comes out nice and black meaning its done its job well. Use one of the diesel oils i mentioned to give a clean, or Auto-Rx, and maintain with one of those thinner oils and see how it goes. Those diesels and Synthetics i mentioned are minimum 8000k oils, safely over 10,000k's, but for the flush give it a 5000k spurt.

Have a look and see what filter it is......they can sometimes play with noises in the engine relating to its effect on pressure and oil flow....... Genuine Holden, Repco, Purolator Pureone and K&N which i like using are all good. Pureone being one of the best, and K&N, bit expensive, but larger capacity and is made by the same people and design to the Mobil 1 filters which always get good reviews in the U.S. Mobil 1 use synthetic membrane, K&N use resin impregnated, but exact same design and maker.

[Riley]

Mine was the same prior to me finding out that coolant was getting into the engine oil.

Have you been topping up your coolant?

only through that really hot spell when it was like 40C+
other than that it hasnt required any

[Riley]

He cant see inside the engine unless only though the cap. ALways consider an engine dirty until you have cleaned it. I am sure its ok, otherwise it would run rough, leak oil, smoke etc. Thats what dirty engines tend to do. A few people have mentioned how these engines rarely get dirty as they have an excellent design, unlike some engines like a few Toyotas which are sludge prone purely due to design. Difference is a sludged Toyota will nearly run forever, a Holden or a Ford will die......

yeah i can see how that might be, and hard to see varnishing from oils too

Anyways, 7000 is more than what you would want to take the magnatec, you have run it through the summer as well, so its done its job. Hopefully it comes out nice and black meaning its done its job well. Use one of the diesel oils i mentioned to give a clean, or Auto-Rx, and maintain with one of those thinner oils and see how it goes. Those diesels and Synthetics i mentioned are minimum 8000k oils, safely over 10,000k's, but for the flush give it a 5000k spurt.

Magnatek is still a tan colour. This engine is normally vary good idling, and without much noise, has used maybe 1/3 ltr over the 7000k's

Ill do the oil over the next few days

Have a look and see what filter it is......they can sometimes play with noises in the engine relating to its effect on pressure and oil flow....... Genuine Holden, Repco, Purolator Pureone and K&N which i like using are all good. Pureone being one of the best, and K&N, bit expensive, but larger capacity and is made by the same people and design to the Mobil 1 filters which always get good reviews in the U.S. Mobil 1 use synthetic membrane, K&N use resin impregnated, but exact same design and maker.

ok thanks for the recommendations, a quality filter too

[Riley]

ok feedback time

I just changed the oil to Helix Ultra 5-40, and the lifter noise is gone, gone, gone

On route, the sump plug was rounded off (of course), even grips wouldnt remove it, got it out drifting it with a centre punch. So theres a new sump plug and washer along with Repco filter.

on oils, shop around, Repco had Helix Ultra at $64, a so called cheap auto parts store had it for $72

thanks folks for the advice, this is a great resource...

[vtbob]

After replacing the inlet gasket due to coolant in engine oil, the engine was run for 1 week with new oil & filter.
On the last day one of the lifters started to make noise.
Today I put new Magnatech in plus another new filter, and the noise is still there - louder & wont go away!

One thing I have noticed, the wife drives the VT most of the time and when she pulls up she usually leaves it idling for a few seconds before shutting down. It never seems to cause a problem for her.

When I shut the engine down, I usually do it before the wheels have even stopped or the handbrake going on.
I'm the one that always seems to have the lifter problem.

Could this quick shut down be part of the cause?
Plus, any tips on how to get them to stop when they wont stop by themselves?
Was thinking of taking off the rocker covers and pouring oil down the passages.