Power Steering Shudder

[wortus]

Posted a thread about this a while back. I was wondering if anyone with a V6 non supercharged VY had this problem while the car was under waranty and what happened.
I am keen to know if the dealerships fixed the fault or simply said it was normal and nothing could be done.
I also know that Holden eventually bought out a revised high pressure hose and would like to know if anyone had that fittted and if it fixed the problem. If they had it done under warranty or not and if not did Holden still cover it.
Or if anyone has managed to fix the problem another way for example using a synthetic power steering fluid or an additive.
Lastly does anyone know exactly what causes the problem? Mine seems to do it more when it's warmed up so I am thinking the viscosity of the fluid plays a part?

[Calaber]

Hi Wortus

I'm with you on this one. I have the same problem and found that changing the fluid did help a bit, but in addition to your questions, I'd like to know if this was just a VY problem and if so, what was changed on VY's that created the problem if it wasn't experienced on VX's? It seems strange that the problem appeared on the VY and needed a factory modification to address it, if it wasn't experienced on the previous model. Do any VX owners experience this problem?

[dah_man_ben]

My VS and my dad's old VT both make the shudder when putting strain on the motor (ie. Reversing out of the driveway, putting into drive whilst also turning the wheel). However it is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in my VY.

[wortus]

Hi Calaber from what I understand the steering rack is different and at low engine speeds the power steering pump may either not be providing enough or a stable enough pressure for it to work properly, perhaps the rack on the VX was OK with this. Holden only fixed cars if there was a complaint and have come up with all sorts of inconsistent excuses not to fix it now and when questioned further simply refuse to respond. Happy to provide the correspondence to you just PM me. I told them I had read the service bulletin saying what to do to fix it, they said my car was not applicable because it was not a V8 with wide wheels, the service bulletin states it is for VY V6 non supercharged, go figure? Then they said it was not a safety issue and did not effect the car so I asked then why did you redesign the part and fit it to cars and they refuse to answer that.
I've also been told by some the revised pipe doesn't really fix it yet a friend has a 2004 model with the revision and it doesn't do it. I changed the fluid about a year ago and the shuddering was greatly reduced, it started to come back so I did it again noting the fluid was fairly dark and has settled in a jar with a white sludge on the bottom. It is still doing it now and seems to be worse when the car is hot so I spoke to Nulon yesterday and they suggested a fully synthetic fluid they make (it's clear) as it maintains the same viscosity over a wider temperature range. Haven't tried that yet.
How long have you had your car, did it do it under new car warranty and if you complained what was the response?

[Calaber]

Hi Wortus
I bought the car with 32k on it but it was out of new car warranty (Sept 03 build and Nov 07 purchase) and I have never bothered taking it up with the dealer. In fact, it wasn't until I started seeing threads on this site that I became aware that the problem was widespread. I had experienced it from the day I bought the car but thought little of it. I priced the modification kit but don't think the problem is worth the money to fix (around $120 trade for a modified pipe is a bit rich.) I did wonder why the previous owner had not taken it up with Holden under the warranty as my car had such a low mileage at the time of purchase and the shudder was present at that time. Perhaps they did take it up and were given the bum's rush by the dealer - the question of what is a warranty job and what is not seems to vary very widely between dealers, doesn't it?

That information you have regarding the VX rack is interesting - If I remember correctly, Holden altered the steering feel in the VY for more directlness and feedback to the driver - it appears that whatever they changed to do that has affected the steering feel in other ways! You sort of wonder whether it would ever be worth installing a reco'd VX rack if your VY one clagged out.

[wortus]

I agree with the modified pipe, I was quoted $150 and that's a lot of fluid changes! It also just hangs inbetween the sump and K frame so looks a bit improvised.
The VY front suspension is based on the Monaro and was used in the VY after that was given good reviews. The VY has a much better road feel than a VX. My Cousin has a VX and it's steering is not as direct and is much lighter, the car has FE2 and handles well it just does not give the driver good feedback like the VY setup.
I think the VX steering racks have their own lot of problems, most I have seen leak and my VY has no leaks or any play in it at all. I spoke to one power steerign place and all they could offer was to replace the rack and pump with no guarantee it would fix the problem so I won't be doing that. I'll probably see how it goes and try some synthetic fluid. At the moment it has Dexron 3 and a bottle of Nulon power steering conditioner in it.
How often do you replace your fluid and what colour is it when it comes out?

[Calaber]

I replaced it at the 90k service and I would say it was the first time it had been replaced since the car was built - certainly, I hadn't done it before. It was black and obviously well overdue for replacement. I have decided to include replacing the fluid as part of every 15k service. At present, it's only Dexron with no additive.

What you said about the VX backs up what I remembered about the steering mods for the VY and now that you mention it, I recall the Monaro set up being used. Interesting about the VX issues too - it obviously makes no sense retro-fitting into the VY.

I'd be very interested to see if your trial with the sythetic fluid works.

[wortus]

I'll try and get some of the fluid soon, my local SuperCheap does not stock it. I am going to try and pin down exactly when it does it, ie if the car is cold or warm etc.

[wortus]

I received an e-mail from holden customer assistance yesterday and they are now claiming that the service bulletin Holden put out in regard to this problem does not cover my car but only covers cars with wider wheels like the S Pack, strangely my car has the same sized wheels factory fitted as the series 1 S Pack. This comes after they tried to tell me the bulletin only covered V8's with wide wheels and tyres when the bulletin states it applies to V6 non supercharged. Seems thy will say anything and everything.

[Calaber]

Wonder if it covered cars other than sports models that had wider rims, like Calais, or cars optioned from new with upgraded rims?

[wortus]

Wonder if it covered cars other than sports models that had wider rims, like Calais, or cars optioned from new with upgraded rims?

Not sure but I'd suspect if aftermarket wheels were fitted and wider then they would use that as an excuse to deny any claim. The Calais and Berlina's have 16x7 rims the same as my car, the S Pack went to 17" with series 2
I've searched through some older threads on this issue and it appears that a lot of owners were told by dealerships it was normal and could not be fixed, Holden then came up with a re engineered pipe something which they call continuous improvement rather than fixing a design fault (bear in mind the VT and VX did not have this problem to the same extent). Also some people had the revised pipe fitted and after a while the shudder came back. I will make some enquiries with power steering specialists and see if they have a solution. Haven't trie the synthetic fluid yet.

[Calaber]

Another interesting point is how they fixed the problem for the VZ - or is this still a problem for them as well. My son's
VZ Acclaim did not have the problem, but the power steering pump and reservoir set up was different and this might have been the fix.

[wortus]

Does the VZ have a different power steering pump? Is the high pressure pipe routed along the front of the engine like the modified one for the VY? If I get a chance I will take a look at one today. Have you seen the modified pipe in a VY? Can you post some pics of the VZ setup?

[stooie]

My mate who is a mechanic at a holden dealership has looked at mine and he couldnt find anything wrong and come to the decision that it just does it when cold and it does it more with age

[Calaber]

Does the VZ have a different power steering pump? Is the high pressure pipe routed along the front of the engine like the modified one for the VY? If I get a chance I will take a look at one today. Have you seen the modified pipe in a VY? Can you post some pics of the VZ setup?

No, we don't have the car anymore. I remember the piping was different, and the pump is definitely different because it has a separate fluid reservoir with a flexible pipe leading from that into the pump. Can't recall having ever seen the modified VY set-up - just know I don't have it.