LS1 Tune

[VY 777]

Hi guys as anyone heard of a mail order tune company or person called VENGEANCE PERFORMANCE TUNING for the LS1 motor. They are advertising on eBay offering a performance tune customized to your car's mods and auto shift mods as well. They seem to know a lot about the tuning and quote lots of past experience. They have a tune for every scenario.
I have Goggled them but come up with no info, as any body heard of them and are they any good.
Cheers Col

[CRANKN]

try use someone reputable, where are you from?

[Darcon666]

Out of all the "Mail Order / Remote" type tunners and tunes available out there I would go with OZTRACK, MACE... not from EvilBay

And definitely not from a mobb called "VENGEANCE PERFORMANCE TUNING - 300kw LS1 mafless mail order tune | eBay " when they are NOT listed as a legitamate business within Australia(No ABN).... they sound like a backyard mechanic type setup.... :lol:

Buyer Beware I say, even though there are some good comments on the feedback I would want something from a well known Tunner/Shop for my baby.

Just my 0.00000000001c....

[VY 777]

Thanks for the advise I felt the same too, so I left them alone will look around. I am in nsw on the central coast 20min from GoSFORD. If any body knows some reputable company please drop me a line. Thanks

[VY 777]

Just to up date I did some research on Vengeance Tune and found that they have been doing tune for quite a few years. After talking with John at vengeance I decided to get my Calais tune.
I was was impressed with my car when I first bought it, after a few weeks it ware off. Being a calais Holden have them screwed right down for everyday driving. So I did the second hole mod on the air box & replace the exhaust with a cat Back s/steel system off a VX HSV Clubby. The car still didn't respond like I though a V8 should, that's why I started to look around at tunes.
I told John at vengeance what I had done to the car and he said he could make a tuns to suit. After the tune was installed I felt the differance straight away, lots more power across the whole rev range and now after 2 weeks my fuel economy is also better now averaging around 12.5 lt per 100km. I am really impressed with the tune NOW I OWN A V8!!!!

[VXLS1]

I got this mail order tune, and not sayin this bloke doesnt know what he is doin but i put my car on the dyno 2day and i wasnt very impressed with the power figue or stoichiometric ratio... very very rich and rich = no power... just saying a dyno tells all and doesnt lie. and theres no better way to tune unless you have your vehicle on a dyno. and the worst thing about that mail order tune is that he locks the ecu so u cannot retune or see his feul trims.... just from first hand expirence dont expect to get power by being cheap lol now its goin to cost me a lot more to get a new ecu and retune..... spewin

[Munz]

dont expect to get power by being cheap

Agreed.....you can get them unlocked but you'll have to look into it.

Nothing better then a custom dyno tune

good luck with it!

[Vengeance]

YOU THINK DYNO'S ARE THE ANSWER!!!

Following is an article from a reputable motoring journalist for those that believe DYNOS are the be all and end all, you may learn something!

Lifted from AutoSpeed Blog » Blog Archive » For Godsake, for some testing forget the bloody dyno – get out on the road!

For Godsake, for some testing forget the bloody dyno – get out on the road!
Posted on December 4th, 2005 in Opinion by Julian Edgar

Why is it that people put so much faith in dyno testing? I have written about this topic before (see Driving Emotion – August 2004) but it needs to be continually shouted from the rooftops. Dynos are bloody useless in so many areas of car modification testing that I don’t know even where to start. But I’ll try.

As I wrote in that previous column, they’re pretty well useless for testing turbo boost controls. Why? Well they:

•Don’t take into account the acceleration rate of each gear – vital because boost overshoot on transients is hugely affected by the rate of engine rpm increase.

•They don’t allow the testing of boost behaviour of full-throttle gearchanges (very few people do full throttle gearshifts on the dyno). Again, it’s in just these conditions that you look for boost overshoots and/or slow increases back to peak boost after each gearchange.

•No one ever does a full-bore launch from a standstill on a dyno. And the speed with which boost can be brought up in these conditions – ie controlling wastegate creep – is a major aspect of good boost control.

•On the dyno people never trial all the different combinations of throttle position, load and engine rpm that you’ll find in a few days of road driving. (I originally said in 10 minutes on the road, but let’s be scrupulously fair.)

None of this is hard to understand: making sure that boost doesn’t exceed a certain level in relatively slow-changing engine conditions is vastly easier than doing the same on transient – but major – changes in engine load that might be completed over just a few seconds.

And finally, I made the point that an intercooler cannot be effectively tested on a dyno.

Recently I have been testing intercooler water sprays. As you would expect from this prelude, the testing has been done on the road. We have written about it in the past: all other things (like drop size) being equal, the effectiveness of a water spray is highly dependent on the mass-flow of ambient air through the ‘cooler. But let’s take it further. In fact, it’s the global airflow over, under and around the car which will determine how well a spray works. Why? Because it’s this airflow that determines how much air passes through the intercooler.

If there is little air passing through the core, the water droplets will evaporate on the surface of the core, cooling only a tiny proportion of it. On the other hand, if there is plenty of air passing through the core (and plenty of evaporating water droplets to go with it!) the majority of the core thickness will be cooled.

Irrespective of the size of the fan stuck in front of the radiator, a dyno simply does not replicate this global airflow. It doesn’t even come close. And that applies to some dyno fans that I have seen that are massive – housed in a cube-shaped frame standing taller than I am. To get airflow that is characteristic of the road – and those characteristics include speed, degree of turbulence, temperature and relative humidity – a full climate-controlled wind tunnel is needed. And those don’t use fans as tall as I am – instead they use a fans many metres in diameter and driven by enormously powerful electric motors. Most wind tunnels are also of the recirculating design and have high-speed moving floors.

So, recently seen a modified car workshop with a climate-controlled, moving-floor wind tunnel with a dyno in it? No, neither have I.

Very, very clearly, writing something like: “I experimented with a water spray when my car was being dyno’d recently and it made stuff-all difference – there was no noticeable improvement on the dyno with my front-mounted 600x300x75 cooler” is rather like saying: “When I moved my car from the driveway into the shed, I could detect no improvement in the handling of the new tyres”. If you are not exactly replicating the real-world conditions in which you are trying to gain an improvement, what worth is the testing?

In fact it is worse than useless – it is potentially misleading.

It’s not as if on-road testing is difficult or expensive. Just put a fast response temp probe in the intake air stream and watch it as you drive around. [And if the car is of such performance this cannot be done on the road, (1) you wonder what use it is as a road car, and (2) you can always hire a track.] Have a switch that manually turns the spray on and off, and remember what the numbers show in different situations.

Without spending a cent, you have a moving road, the correct global airflow including such subtleties as real world turbulence, accurate engine loads for the available airflow, and so on and so on.

It’s in this way that you can find that in some turbo intercooled cars, peak intake temps on load occur immediately after being stopped in traffic. Or in other intercooled turbo cars, a slow climb up a long hill when stuck behind a truck can cause intake air temps to go higher than when on a full-boost, through-the-gears 0 – 150 km/h run. Or in other intercooled cars, 15 minutes of consistently hard driving will blow intake air temps out of the water.

You’ll also be able to see in what conditions of road speed, ambient temperature, and load history an intercooler spray is effective. In experience of my own turbocharged intercooled road cars (13 different intercooling systems on nine turbo cars over nearly 20 years), an intercooler spray that is triggered by a dumb boost pressure switch spends most of its time wasting water. The spray control system must have the intelligence to at least monitor intercooler core temp (or, less preferably, intake air temp) and engine load.

To think that a quick dyno run at full throttle (or even 30 ramped dyno pulls, one after the other) is going to tell you anything much about on-road intake air temps, or the efficiency of an intercooler water spray, is completely fallacious.

And the great thing is, it’s so easy and cheap to get absolutely cast-iron validity in your results. Just do the testing where you drive the bloody car…

[kojab]

Although this is only a recent article by Julian Edgar, I have had similar beliefs about the misconceptions of dyno tuning long before this was written. All the cars I have tuned have never been dyno tuned. With today's technology of high speed logging their is no need for risk taking dyno simulation where all hell can break loose and often does.

Dicks Electronics

[Vengeance]

Another example of how a dyno tells all and doesnt lie Dyno figures, are they accurate? Also A/F ratios are always richer on the dyno when compared to logging A/F ratio on the road or track.

[Munz]

when was it said that dyno's are accurate, most people use them as a tuning tool

[Vengeance]

when was it said that dyno's are accurate, most people use them as a tuning tool

Doesn’t a tuning tool need to be accurate!......... VXLS1 said "just saying a dyno tells all and doesnt lie"

Have a look at the link "Dyno figures, are they accurate?" on this forum it shows how easy figures can be manipulated in addition to ramp rates. For example how long does it take for a car on a dyno to go from 2000rpm to 6500 in top gear or the gear below it I would suggest considerably less than it takes a car on the road track to accelerate from 2000rpm to 6500rpm.

Don't believe me do a search on the web it is full of articles on the subject weigh up the comments and draw your own conclusion.

As a tuner and having witnessed the large variations obtained off Dynos trying to simulate road and track conditions as compared to data logging under actual conditions on the road/track. All my base tunes are set up on the dyno then fine tuned on the road/track. I would also never place the wideband up the tail pipe as is typically done. I always place the wideband before the cat.

However I give Dyno's 10 out of 10 as a marketing tool

[VXLS1]

dyno dynamics have a "shoot out mode" bang straight on and load and test... it may be that engines run richer on a dyno rather than on track but not to the point of my a/f ratio being 10.8:1 when that is way too rich even for a boosted tune... dynos may be inacurate to an extent but would i now get more power from my tuner now that he has his a/f ratio and ignition tables on his dyno if the dyno was "inacurate"... we straped 2 vx ss's to this dyno. one standard, and mine.. keep in mind mine has a 3in exhaust and otr. the standard pulled 10 more horse power than mine..... and its a/f ratio was much leaner than mine from factory... all to their own opinion. i was just forwarding my expirience on this tune just as VY 777 asked for, as this is a forums and people do interact. SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!