Mafless Tune Surprised and Disappointed!

[cosmo94]

Im keen to hear from anyone who has had a mafless tune. I had my VY series 2 SS ute Mafless tuned. Already had K&N airfilter, Extractors, high flow cats, 2-1/2"cat back system, car only done 12k. Pre tune only pulled 180kw post tune 212kw. I drove car prior to getting figure and was blown away how good it felt and the responsiveness and pick up but when i was told only got 212kw, good gain but still a poor figure i reckon. Any 1 else had similar or have i been jipped! Car does have low kms and still tight but 212kw from a GEN3 is almost laughable!
Any feedback at all welcome!!!!!

[AMAGDN]

thats 212kw at the wheels which is somewhere in the vicinity of 265-270kw at the motor which is a total of 20kw gained over std, that is a bit lower than others i have heard of with similar mods but maybe with the higher output already from holden the mafless doesnt gain as much, but the proof is in driveability

[vyssls1]

i had 180 rwkw before tune.after 249 rwks (mafless tune, 1 3/4" 4 in 1 pacemakers, dual 2 1/2" ,25% underdrive and otrcia)

[Evman]

i had 180 rwkw before tune.after 249 rwks (mafless tune, 1 3/4" 4 in 1 pacemakers, dual 2 1/2" ,25% underdrive and otrcia)

sorry what's otrcia?

[minux]

go headers and an otrcai, on a conservative tune i am pulling 238 rwkw.

[rousey]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[cosmo94]

Thanks for the heads it was certainly a shock, guess i was thinking of all they hype around the 300kw magic figure and hoped to come close.

[davey g-force]

sorry what's otrcia?

OTRCAI = over the radiator cold air intake.

VYSS346 has also had it done and got some good pix of it, take a look:

VYSS346's ...03 VYSS

[rousey]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[klaw81]

Im keen to hear from anyone who has had a mafless tune. I had my VY series 2 SS ute Mafless tuned. Already had K&N airfilter, Extractors, high flow cats, 2-1/2"cat back system, car only done 12k. Pre tune only pulled 180kw post tune 212kw. I drove car prior to getting figure and was blown away how good it felt and the responsiveness and pick up but when i was told only got 212kw, good gain but still a poor figure i reckon. Any 1 else had similar or have i been jipped! Car does have low kms and still tight but 212kw from a GEN3 is almost laughable!
Any feedback at all welcome!!!!!

I had my SV8 auto tuned with no modifications at all and still got 205rwkw! (Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode) I know there's a bit of difference between dynos but that does sound a little disappointing. I know I would have been a little disappointed if I'd spent that amount of cash.

Perhaps try a different dyno - even if you don't pay for additional tuning and just do a few runs to compare.

[Just_Ice]

Like all the others have said Dynos are a tool for tuning, not a real indication... My VX SS Headers, exhaust and Maf tune only made 196.7rwkw... I was totally dissappointed with that, but it feels great and a totally different car to drive...... Has pulled a 13.8 at the track which is not to shabby I don't think....

[vy1sv8]

speed is indeed the best indicator, i use the gardens along anzac pde as markers and gun up there, the faster i am at a certain point im gathering is meaning a mod was a good one . dynos can be terribly inaccurate, and obviously vary a hell of a lot. But dude no stress

[cosmo94]

agree the drive is so much better, response is instant and at the end of the day Dyno figures are a littlebit of a W**k!

[rousey]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[davey g-force]

the first mod i ever got (car was completely standard) was a maf edit. And the difference was incredible.
The first thing i noticed was the urge the car had. It required less throttle to accelertate hard.
I didnt realy notice a difference below 3000rpm, but above that the car was completly different.

Is your car still completely standard other than the edit? If so, running low 13's is pretty awsome!

I'm just wondering what the effect would be of getting just the tune. My VY SS is stock at the moment and I'm not into loud exhaust etc any more (I must be getting old!). Or do I really need an exhaust / cai to get the best from the tune?

[klaw81]

I'm just wondering what the effect would be of getting just the tune. My VY SS is stock at the moment and I'm not into loud exhaust etc any more (I must be getting old!). Or do I really need an exhaust / cai to get the best from the tune?

No, you don't need any add-ons to get some extra power, since the standard V8 is tuned quite poorly. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate marketing strategy to keep the "halo cars" significantly faster, or just "insurance" against abuse and potential breakages. If course, if you do have some mods done, you can get more benefit from the mods by having the engine re-tuned.

My VY2 SV8 is totally stock, no air filter, muffler change or even a sticker. It was dynoed stock at 240rwhp. After a tune using HP Tuners LS1 Edit(?) software it made 270rwhp. This is not a aggresive or dangerous tune - you'd never know the difference during the daily drive. Gains were across the entire rev range but most significant in the 4000-6000 rev range. I also had the speedo recalibrated and the auto shift points tweaked.

[davey g-force]

No, you don't need any add-ons to get some extra power, since the standard V8 is tuned quite poorly. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate marketing strategy to keep the "halo cars" significantly faster, or just "insurance" against abuse and potential breakages. If course, if you do have some mods done, you can get more benefit from the mods by having the engine re-tuned.

My VY2 SV8 is totally stock, no air filter, muffler change or even a sticker. It was dynoed stock at 240rwhp. After a tune using HP Tuners LS1 Edit(?) software it made 270rwhp. This is not a aggresive or dangerous tune - you'd never know the difference during the daily drive. Gains were across the entire rev range but most significant in the 4000-6000 rev range. I also had the speedo recalibrated and the auto shift points tweaked.

Thanks for that klaw.

240 rwhp sounds high though. They were meant to have 235 hp at the flywheel standard!

Still, an increase of 30 rwhp is significant for a tune only. I think I'm gonna pop into Morrano's here in Sydney on my next day off...

[klaw81]

You've got your figures & units a bit skewed....the VY was originally rated at 230kW (not HP) at the flywheel. The VY2 was upgraded to 245kW at the flywheel. Allowing for drivetrain losses, 240HP (205kW) at the wheels is about right for an auto - a manual would give a little more.

Cosmo34 you're right that results between dynos are often variable, which is why they should only be used as a comparison...but there's nothing wanky about comparing figures before and after each modification. That's a very valid and useful measure of "bang for buck" comparison, and the basis of all modification R&D. However, on-the-road performance is what we're all interested in, at the end of the day it's the only thing that really matters.

[davey g-force]

You've got your figures & units a bit skewed....the VY was originally rated at 230kW (not HP) at the flywheel. The VY2 was upgraded to 245kW at the flywheel. Allowing for drivetrain losses, 240HP (205kW) at the wheels is about right for an auto - a manual would give a little more.

Derrr! Sorry bout that I got mixed up...

[SweetWagon]

Could anyone enlighten me as to what a mafless tune is, I know what a maf is so im guessing its a tune without the maf? If so, by the looks of things there are some fairly good gains from them.
thanks

[davey g-force]

Could anyone enlighten me as to what a mafless tune is, I know what a maf is so im guessing its a tune without the maf?

You're spot on!

[klaw81]

You're dead right, the MAF is removed and the car re-tuned. Perhaps I could be more helpful by explaining why....

The MAF is the Mass Air Flow sensor - this measues the volume of air coming into the engine. Air flow into the engine is mainly governed by current engine speed (rpm), throttle setting & air temperature. The engine management uses this information to calculate the appropriate injector opening time, which in turn governs the amount of fuel that is mixed with the air that was measured. The idea is to always have near-perfect combustion efficiency, which is critical for power, emissions control and fuel economy.

The downside to having the MAF in the airflow is that it tends to cause a restriction. This means that only a certain amount of air can enter the engine to mix with the fuel, which tends to restrict power at high rpm when the engine is begging for as much air as it can get. The obvious solution is to get a bigger MAF to allow more air to flow in, or better still, ditch it altogether.

Since the engine managment is programmed to use the MAF to caculate injector cycles and regulate fuel supply, it spits the dummy when the MAF is removed. It reverts to TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) mode and cuts power to prevent engine damage. Re-tuning the engine management is necessary to allow the engine to run properly, and to take advantage of the reduced airflow restriction.

You might be wondering what happens to emissions control and fuel economy now the MAF is gone? Well theoretically it doesn't make much difference, seeing as the information the computer needs can be supplied by other sensors. The main factors (rpm, throttle setting & air temp) that govern correct tune have dedicated sensors, which are already installed and working fine...it's just that the MAF is slightly more accurate. So emissions and fuel consumptioon may be a little worse than before, but only very slightly. Some types of cars don't even HAVE a MAF sensor fitted from factory. And if you're spending that much money on mods to an Aussie V8, fuel economy and emissions are clearly not your highest priorities anyway.

[VYSS346]

Got my VY SS Series I run up on the dyno today.. 3 runs..

Im running mafless tune, otr cai and cat back 2.5 inch twin redback exhaust.. stock headers and cats... mines a manual too with 113,500k's on the clock

on the first run she pulled 277.8 rwhp
Second run pulled 280.5 rwhp and we noticed a nice hole in the timing map.. we temp adjusted that hole to make it straighter and netted 291.5rwhp, now from the graph/printout, i can see the tuner who did mine needs to adjust the tune somewhat in the 3000 - 4500 rpm range.. which should net me just over 300rwhp after being done..

Also want to get some pacemakers and hi flow cats done which should give me another small increase.. maybe 10rwhp..

so yeah more tuning to come for me!

oh and rough conversion of 291.5rwhp is 217.5 rwkw's

DR

[davey g-force]

Got my VY SS Series I run up on the dyno today.. 3 runs..

Im running mafless tune, otr cai and cat back 2.5 inch twin redback exhaust.. stock headers and cats... mines a manual too with 113,500k's on the clock

on the first run she pulled 277.8 rwhp
Second run pulled 280.5 rwhp and we noticed a nice hole in the timing map.. we temp adjusted that hole to make it straighter and netted 291.5rwhp, now from the graph/printout, i can see the tuner who did mine needs to adjust the tune somewhat in the 3000 - 4500 rpm range.. which should net me just over 300rwhp after being done..

Also want to get some pacemakers and hi flow cats done which should give me another small increase.. maybe 10rwhp..

so yeah more tuning to come for me!

oh and rough conversion of 291.5rwhp is 217.5 rwkw's

DR

Some good figures there Darkrayne.

Just out of interest, when you say the tuner has to adjust your tune, is that part of the initial cost, or would you have to pay again for the re-adjustment?

[VYSS346]

Some good figures there Darkrayne.

Just out of interest, when you say the tuner has to adjust your tune, is that part of the initial cost, or would you have to pay again for the re-adjustment?

The tuner who did my mafless edit is my younger brothers best friend.. he works for Motec and does LS1 edits all over Perth.. I just rang him up after i got the dyno runs done and asked him whenever hes got time if he we can sit down and fine tune the maps.. said wasnt a prob so either be doing it this arvo or saturday!.. but yeah intial tune was loaded at his home, didnt have the use of a dyno so was a little trial and error.. but yeah should have it running sweet in no time! was happy to see with some fine tuning she jumped up quite a bit in the rwhp figure! ... also running a bit rich in the top end so will adjust the fuel map to fix that too..

cheers

DR