Installing Flashlube on a VY V6?
Anybody have any specific instructions on installing the Flashlube Kit on a VY V6 (ecotech) with Injected gas?
Cheers
Wouldnt bother on flash lube.
Just do Oil Changes/Filter at 5,000km instead of 10,000km and use a 10W/30 semi/synthetic oil. This will keep your engine well lubricated and protected. Flash Lube may be a good idea, but I think that it really doesnt do much. Except cost money for the lube. Keep the Throttle body clean with carbi-clean. And Replace the air filter regulary (or clean if its a k&n etc). And get a gas tune every once and a while to make sure the mixture is right.
The idea of Flash lube to me is piece of mind !!!
Hi rokkz, I wouldn't bother with the idea either I was deciding weather putting a flashlube system on my VZ (fact. fit) would be beneficial but I called a few places in Melbourne and they said it was pointless they don't normally get enough fluid into the system.
I currently just put 1 of the small bottles of the flashlube into the petrol tank every time I fill up (once every 2 months), just as a peace of mind thing, although i'm unsure wheter this would be doing anything benefical as the car only runs on fuel for the first 5mins before changeover to LPG but I'd like to think that it is.
Guys
Oil changes have no affect on the valves, and their seats from the use of LPG, their only lubricated by the fuel it’s self.
Petrol has cooling lubricating properties, to which gas fails to have.
A car fitted with LPG, that starts on petrol has little/ no benefit if the flashlube is used in the petrol other than to prevent the injectors from gumming up.
One thought to the LPG Specialists, blownba etc, what does Holden do to overcome excessive seat wear, if they sell a after factory gas conversion kit.
Cheers
I think that they installed hardened valves and seats to compensate for the dryness of the fuel, well that is what they said on the fact. fit VZ's
rokkz, engine oil has nothing to do with anything the flashlube is used for unless its leaking past your valve stems. F0r $70 initially and anywhere from $11 for the Penrite stuff to $18 for the Moreys Lube which is the best, once every 10,000k's once its set right. When i did my manifold gasket, i could clearly see evidence of the flashlube making its way into the chamber. The liquid had formed a coating on the surfaces, not varnish, but almost like vaseline.
Putting in your tank at start up is a waste of time. Use the Moreys System, or Flashlube, doesnt matter, but use the Moreys or Lucas, i not sure about the Flashlube, but the Moreys has a higher flashpoint and does not burn like what the others do and layers the surfaces and moistens the charge entering the chamber. Drill a whole on the top of your plenum behind the throttle body, insert a brass fitting and stick your hose on it. This way it distributes evenly.
No one does anything, installers will tell you you dont need it cause it makes them look like di&ks for not including it, but they all stock em on their shelves (Just like stainless steel leads that they never install for you, unless you ask or they use it as a fix once your car starts backfiring). Ask a few head specialist and ask them if you need one. Yes tune is probably the most important aspect, best to run it slightly richer, than lean to get extra mileage when you already saving over petrol anyway. With the moreys with its higher flashpoint, it coats the upper cylinder in the hope that it will help seal as well, but you could never really guage this.
And definately do not use a 10W-30 oil on a LPG car. The lightest you would wanna go is a 15W-40 SL or SM oil with a Diesel rating(CF/CI) to cater for the extra acids in the oil. Even use diesel oil, Mobil make one of the best. LPG burns so much hotter, it would thin the 10W-30 to water(remember coolant only takes a percentage of heat, oil has to cool the engine as well) , you shouldnt even use 10W-30 on Petrol car. Holden sell a 15W-40 LPG oil, it may be rebagged Mobil or Fuchs oil. You dont need the specific LPG oil, as long as the oil has the C rating as well as a SL/SM rating, you can use any oil. I'm not gonna go on about brands, theres heaps of threads on the net. On lpg you will see the oil only ever darkens at 4-5000k's as it doesn't suffer from fuel dilution as much as petrol cars, but does build up acid. Good spec oil and easily go to 10,000, although some brands are only made to last 5000k's.
Last edited by vxcalais_01; 24-05-2008 at 07:32 PM.
Banned
Yeh, so says the rhetoric on some of the lpg specific oils. However, where is the hard evidence of acid building up in lpg oil to metal corroding levels?Originally Posted by vxcalais_01
Ive run oil for 20000km without a change in lpg only motors. Was unable to detect any acid at alland could only come up with ph neutral. What does the PM testing reveal? It would have to be around ph<1 to start causing problems to car engine metals, even coca cola poses no problems to aluminium cans.
Flashlube......Id say in the absence of firm evidence that it does any good....save your money.
Well from $11 for the Penrite stuff to the $18 for the Lucas or Moreys over 10,000k's, worth the insurance in my opinion. Id say as there is not evidence it does any bad, why not use it, the principal and theory is there for it.
Commsirac, i agree, PM says i can get 70,000k's on its oil, and i will be testing the ULX on my brother in laws car at 7000 odd k's. Commsicrac, most good oils are naturally alkaline for a reason, fuel dilution, combustion bi products from petrol or gas are naturally acidic. Thats why i dont push gas specific oil. I think nearly all oils are go gas. Its the acidic nature that causes sludge as well or at least some of it. THere is an opinion that LPG seems to create more. But the more i read on it, it seems this is crap, and lpg is not meant to create any hydrochloric acid, so it coudl be another marketing scheme from the oil mobs.
Holden approved conversions have used, since VR, separate fuel maps in the memcal or flashed program for LPG and petrol with a valve seat protection mode. The injectors (and fuel pump) are shut off on LPG except during starting but at higher engine loads are used to cool the valves and valve seats.
With engines built for unleaded fuels, valve seat damage becomes an issue related to excessive heat. A small amount - as distinct from the total fuel requirement - of petrol is sprayed through the injectors to cool the valves when required.
As far as I am aware, at least up to VX, there are no engine mechanical changes made by Holden as part of an LPG conversion.
Any acidity found in engine oil will likely be nitrogen based, from NOx combustion products bypassing the rings or, less likely with current fuels, sulphur based from the fuel. There might also be some carboxylic acids formed. In any case, water is required for them to form and for them to be detected. Commsirac is right; no water, no low pH (acidity).
Last edited by Cheap6; 29-05-2008 at 02:12 PM.
Despite the large amounts of water and vapour lpg combustion creates ? I cant see how they would succesfully run petrol and lpg together, it would run like a dog, and if it was only a small amount, it would vapourise doing crap all. To be able to mix and have either fuel run at certain revs is amazing and would cough and splatter like a dog. There is no way possible to keep them seperate in the combustion chamber or lines when changing over. Cheap6, i thought most lpg systems ran piggyback systems ? How does 1 computer know when different fuels have been changed over ?
Well, that's what they do, whether you think it will work or not. Apparently it's enough to protect the valves.
It's load based, not rpm based and you can add a surprising amount of petrol without causing a rich miss over the stoichiometric LPG. I have on my car a Silicon Chip Nitrous Fuel Controller wired to pulse the petrol injectors, used to assist with starting on LPG. (It was cheaper than an LPG MemCal.) At 13% duty cycle (because that's where it works best) it doesn't cause a miss or stumble if I press the switch while driving.
There is an extra wired added to the PCM to switch between the two maps.
Banned
what are the symptoms of excessive valve wear? can that ticking sound be caused by this?
The Only 6sp VZ Wagon
lack of engine power, lost engine compression, until the engine stops
EASTERN CREEK JCNSW 2009
Banned
yeh but what about the ticking sound?
interesting and good set up. Something to look into.
The Only 6sp VZ Wagon
well if the valve seat is being warn down the valve will start moving further into the head, thus making the clearance between valve and rocker smaller which the hydraulic adjuster will take up,
so im guessing it will probably not make much noise
EASTERN CREEK JCNSW 2009
Assuming you are referring to the fuel controller rather than the factory PCM set up:
It can work on a VP (or VN) and would on a VR, because in those cars there are only two injector drivers (the VN/VP ones are wired together in parallel). That means that I only had to fit two 5 pin relays in the injector earth wires to allow the the fuel controller to be wired in. A VS- with sequential injection and 6 injector drivers would require 6 relays to do it the same way; possible but getting complicated.
The amount of fuel added is also constant, where an amount proportional to engine load would be required for valve cooling (I have it for starting only - I don't do much sustained high speed driving). I think that a factory memcal would be easier and more elegant where possible.
Re. noise: worn valve guides can sometimes be noisy.
Banned
Sorry to dig, but just got more questions.
Is flashlube worth its hassle?
and is it better to install it at the throttle body or intake manifold?
Banned
have your read the whole thread? the best we can get is flashlube cant do any harm so best to use it?.....might as well put on a polariser as well.....
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