gasssssss =]
hey guys.
getting gas conversion put in very shortly.
getting the sequential VAPOUR system.
anyone have any feedback on these?
how much power would i loose/gain.... and is it worth going the liquid.
tried calling a poo load of places and only found one that does liquid.
didnt think u could put sv6's on gas
stupidity reigns supreme!
u can but its harder and therfore more expensive
cheapest quoted was $4000 including donut spare wheel well tank and integrated meter.
sequential vapour.
got quoted 5500 for liquid but wondering if its worth the difference.
Your aware of the government rebate right??
yeahh has to be done by july 1st then it only becomes 2000 or something.
parents are the $$$.
Now in a Calais
I've got the vapour injection... same engine as yours. It goes well, very slight loss of power but barely noticeable. Economy is great when I drive it right... it has saved me heaps in fuel costs!
My dad did the conversion for me, he specialises in gas. I asked him about liquid when I was planning on getting it done and he said not to go anywhere near it. He's heard of too many cars that had to have the systems completely removed from the cars after the conversion cos they did too much damage to the car, so he doesn't trust the system yet. Although on the other hand I have heard of many good stories about these systems, so who knows.
Personally I won't consider liquid until it's been used for a considerable amount of time and it has proven itself to be successful and work flawlessly on a variety of cars. It's just too new at the moment for me to consider, as great as it sounds right now.
Vapour is great though, no complaints whatsoever.
cheers mate.
can i ask how much u payed?
If you can afford it or save a bit more go for the liquid injection.
remember you get a good goverment rebate and that will lessen the pain a little on the wallet
only heard good reports about it and my dad just got it done to his prado 4*4 V6 and you cant tell the difference in power and looks a whole let better in the engine bay compared to a dirty big mixer. lol
you get close to the same amount of power as fuel with liquid injection cause it stays as a liquid gas until the point of combustion holding its octane rating and therefore getting more of a bang in the cylinder. does this by having gas injectors for each cylinder feed straight from the tank simular looking to fuel injectors.
It is mainly controlled by a computer which is easier for tuning, getting the mix right with graphs and also fault finding compared to the mixer which was all adjuster screws.
Only down side (if you want to call it one) is my dads has to start and wait for the car to warm up (or a set time) with petrol and then it will automatically change to gas, which is a good thing cause a little fuel going through is healthy for a engine constantly on gas.
down side is if you run out of petrol and turn the car off you cant start the car cause it has no fuel to start with!! lol
Gas mixer seems to lose power cause its mixed with the air first and and then feed into the engine through the intake. during that time it loses some of its octane rating and again therefore less bang!
Pretty sure there is dedicated gas ve alloytecs now which means its definately on the market for alloytecs.
hopes this helps....
thanks alot breno and jimmy drifter
Personally, I'm waiting until the liquid injection problems are all ironed out and its been tried and tested before I go and swap mine. I'm running just a single mixer atm and it works fine with a slight loss of power, but its good just for cruising. when I rebuild the engine in a couple of years I'm gonna consider liquid injection. Think it will be the way to go in a couple of years time!
Now in a Calais
Exactly my thoughts also... give it time and it will be the standard I reckon.Originally Posted by crewsy
Breno.. vapour injection is also a nice looking install with injectors and no mixer, it's almost the same as liquid injection except it is injected as a vapour instead of a liquid, and hence it is safer and much easier to calibrate to specific engines. Liquid injection systems often have to be returned to the installer for recalibration for better economy and power, because the wrong parts were used the first time around.
At the moment vapour is the way to go... unless you wanna be a guinea pig for a system that IMO is still in testing phase.
I guess theres to sides to it.......most of the vapour gas mix conversions ive seen where the old school mix box type and always look not so good and used to hate working on them in my younger years! haha.
when it comes to realiability and testing of new technology it all comes down to who the installer is and how much experience he has with the liquid injection system installation and maintainence. thats why it pays to do your research with every installer.
IMO i just cant see the point in doing things twice getting the vapour and eventually getting the liquid injection later when the vapour might be phased out. to much cost involved.
Have a 2005 VZ SV6 running a Sprintgas/OMVL Dream XXI gas injection system. No power loss on either fuel and fuel changeover is seamless at any engine speed. Consumption is under 14L/100km average (550km+ from a 75L tankful) in the Perth suburbs (compared to 12L/100km on 98RON unleaded). Our example has been running on gas for 2 years now with minimal servicing costs and considerable fuel cost savings.
Liquid injection is definitely the way to go these days. The extra outlay buys you a system that doesn't require a separate tune and also delivers superior power, economy and underbonnet tidiness.
Regards,
Dave
Injected CNG, LNG & LPG: The only way to go better!
If you can afford it or save a bit more go for the liquid injection.
remember you get a good goverment rebate and that will lessen the pain a little on the wallet
only heard good reports about it and my dad just got it done to his prado 4*4 V6 and you cant tell the difference in power and looks a whole let better in the engine bay compared to a dirty big mixer. lol
you get close to the same amount of power as fuel with liquid injection cause it stays as a liquid gas until the point of combustion holding its octane rating and therefore getting more of a bang in the cylinder. does this by having gas injectors for each cylinder feed straight from the tank simular looking to fuel injectors.
It is mainly controlled by a computer which is easier for tuning, getting the mix right with graphs and also fault finding compared to the mixer which was all adjuster screws.
Only down side (if you want to call it one) is my dads has to start and wait for the car to warm up (or a set time) with petrol and then it will automatically change to gas, which is a good thing cause a little fuel going through is healthy for a engine constantly on gas.
down side is if you run out of petrol and turn the car off you cant start the car cause it has no fuel to start with!! lol
Gas mixer seems to lose power cause its mixed with the air first and and then feed into the engine through the intake. during that time it loses some of its octane rating and again therefore less bang!
Pretty sure there is dedicated gas ve alloytecs now which means its definately on the market for alloytecs.
hopes this helps....
Sorry mate are you sure you are not talking about vapour injection???
Liquid injection will only run on petrol for 60 seconds while it does its purge cycle.
And Liquid injection Gains more power than petrol due to the chemical intercooling/ supercharging effect it has on the incoming air charge. Nothing to do with octane getting into engine. Although LPG is a higher octane rating than petrol regardless of how you get it into a engine (108 octane on average)
LPG cannot "loose" octane just cause its mixed to the air through a mixer.
Power loss is experienced more than anything because of the huge airflow restriction a gas mixer ring will place on a engines intake air flow.
Let me clear some things up about LIQUID INJECTION, as I have been an authorised fitter since before it had begun being fitted to vehicles in Australia.
Liquid injection will give you MORE POWER than petrol every time, due to the liquid LPG super cooling the incoming air charge in the engine ports and making the air more dense with oxygen thus creating more power and working as a chemical intercooler or chemical supercharger.
I have been fitting liquid injection since it came out and the issues you guys speak of are NON existent.
Engine life is actually INCREASED due to the freezing LPG supercooling the inlet valve and the cooler air charge and freezing fuel charge lowering combustion temps dramatically.
Liquid injection has no unreliable LPG ECU like vapour injection, the petrol injectors run the system DIRECTLY, unlike vapour injection that needs to intercept petrol injector signal, calculate and convert the signal with complex algorithms and then send it to the gas injector (that operates slower than petrol injectors) and then injects slow moving gas vapour that is already at high temps (common to see 90 deg C gas vapour temps at the vapour injectors) all adds up to a slow to react and lazy injection times.
JTG liquid injection just gets the injector signal straight from the petrol ECU and it opens a set of modified Siemans petrol injectors. They are DECA side feed high flow petrol injectors that have been slightly modified for LPG liquid use. much different to the LPG vapour injectors that are just slow moving heavy solenoids.
JTG runs a petrol fuel pump in the LPG tank to pressurise liquid LPG to 4 bar above tank pressure then it runs down a high flow flexible gas line to the LPG injectors and then there is a return line out of the injectors (the same as a petrol system) and runs to a pressure regulator (sets the rail pressure) and lock off and then a line BACK to the tank.
Very simple, less parts than vapour injection and above all highly reliable AND MORE POWER THAN PETROL.
VE 6.0L gains about 10 to 20 RWKW without tuning and a MOUNTAIN of torque at low revs.
XR6T's gain up to 24 Rwkw (thats the best I have seen) above premium unleaded petrol.
Right across the range the LPG Liquid injection TROMPS on petrol performance.
If you want to know more about the systems I fit read this months STREET MACHINE magazine. There is a 3 page write up in there with pictures.
The misconception that some installers are spreading about liquid injection is astounding. And it comes down to pure ignorance and also a bit of jealousy.
There are alot of fitters that are very cut that they cannot fit this system as they cannot become authorised installers so they just bag the hell out of it so people will go for their lesser injection systems instead.
There is only one company in the country that import JTG liquid injection for sale and you need to be accredited by them to fit it. alot of fitters are getting nasty cause they have missed out on the very best thing to happen to the LPG industry EVER.
I have been around LPG for more than 20 years and a licensed fitter for about 16 years and I can tell you this stuff is the best thing to happen to LPG EVER.
The results speak for themselves.
Heres a VE 6.0L calais I have done.
And a XR6T.
Last edited by blownba; 13-06-2009 at 12:09 AM.
Oh and if you run out of petrol OR petrol pump fails you can start it on straight gas. you just press and hold down the change over button, turn the ignition on (if its vapour injection you an start straight away) and wait for the purge cycle to occur if its liquid injection and once the switch tells you you can start it straight up on gas.
The reason liquid injection uses petrol at all is so you don't have to turn the ignition on and wait for the system to go through the purge cycle before you start. You can start on petrol straight away and go .
Incidentally liquid injection is the only fuel system in the world that will start a car at minus 46 degC without ANY issues due to the fact that the liquid LPG does not suffer from freezing at low temps.
arrrrr looks like i might of got the simple run around of chinese whispers!! lol.
thanks blownba for clearing that up.....i was waiting for a experienced fitter to comment.:
must of been talking bout something different.... another good thing is i didnt know people where attempting to put gas injection on 6.0l's yet. Good news for me anyway!
sounds like good results too.
Now in a Calais
Sounds like it... but if you're gonna get liquid injection installed make sure you do your research and find a very good installer. Most people are not getting the improved power and economy figures promised. Their vehicle then needs to be taken back to the installer for recalibration.. which mind you is free but still a hassle and hopefully in time the entire process will be perfected and have no need for a return to the installer.arrrrr looks like i might of got the simple run around of chinese whispers!! lol.
thanks blownba for clearing that up.....i was waiting for a experienced fitter to comment.:
must of been talking bout something different.... another good thing is i didnt know people where attempting to put gas injection on 6.0l's yet. Good news for me anyway!
sounds like good results too.
custom audio installer
does anyone know off ppl that install this in sydney
anyone got any prices in vic for liquid injection?
i got quoted 5500.
I am in Vic and a JTG installer.
If you want a quote PM me.
I do discounts for Forum members.
Even with a donut tank that sounds high.
I don't have my price list with me at home but can give you a quote via PM tomorrow.
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