VZ Lumina Lots of Problems

[SargeRX7]

Hey all,

Well I'm seeking info. Let me begin with a run around of the car. It was bought through a Private Seller. He managed to cover up the car extremely well. It was a repairable write off in a different state. The car suffered from flood damage. When we checked out the car it was clean, running smoothly, driving well and so forth. We brought it home and problems began and he refused to do anything about it.

So I guess its time to fix it. Initially it was displaying an ABS fault but this was caused by a poor battery. The battery was replaced and this problem was gone. It now displays a Check Powertrain warning and the car will not let you rev past 2500 exactly. In neutral it revs freely all the way up to 6000rpm. Checking the dipstick on oil and it was clear. Checking transmission fluid and the liquid and it was clear that there was water in the system. We had the transmission flushed and filled with fresh oil, then flushed again and refilled and repeated until the fluid was clear. It still displays the problem.

We had the mechanic attempt to diagnose the system and he was unable to connect. We tried a different mechanic and his tools also reported the same problem, he could not establish a connection. This lead him to believe that the electrical system could be toast. Everything works in the car. If it wasnt limping it would be perfect.

Should I assume a fried ECU system or would I be seeing more problems? Is there anything I can do in relation to the purchase of this car? We have had it for 5 days and the guy refuses to do anything.

Also, I dont know if it means anything, when the car is locked after say 30 mins you can hear the car trying to lock the doors every 5 seconds and it will do this all night/day. Sometimes when we unlock it, it will lock almost straight away and we have to hold unlock or quickly open the car so it doesnt lock again.

I dont know what to do.. Its booked in for a Holden Service but I'm worried they are going to charge a fortune to fix it. If i request that they just check the car for problems and give me a quote rather than fix the problems, will they do that? I need to know what its going to cost before i outlay money to fix.

Cheers guys.

Oh and I will add that when this problem occurs, the Speedo no longer displays the speed I'm traveling, both the digital and analogue.

[andyman]

due to the ecm being on the front of the motor and high up out of the way id asume and hope for your sake the water didnt get to it that high but id rule that out,

the PIM, powertrain interface module send signals throughout the car and links the different control module together using gmlans canbus system, its pretty possible this has been affected if a scan tool cannot connect to the vehicle,

id ring a lawyer and seek some advice,? even though its private, i wouldnt have thought you cauld re-register a wet car, i was under the impression they are stat write-offs

[VYMAD]

Did it say "as is" on your receipt?

[andyman]

Did it say "as is" on your receipt?

ah good point,

that could stand up in court if it isnt even though it was private sale

[Danoz]

Im not sure what you expect the seller to do. It sounds as though you didnt check it out thoroughly when you bought it. An NRMA inspection is always wise when buying a second hand car.

[bigdaddycool]

If the car starts there should be no reason a mechanic etc cant get into the computer. I've been tuning a while and I also have just a scan diag device.......... which reports errors........... the only thing I could think of if nobody can get in is if the BCM possibly isn't updating the security code as it changes.

You should definitely be able to get in, if u cant something big is playing up (by big I mean a main device, BCM, TCM, ECU)

Suggestions I have which probably wont help:

1. Try a relink of the vats system (relinks the bcm to everything for the immobiliser side of things).
2. Powerchain errors generally are some kind of fault, no doubt a sensor one or more in your case.
3. Transmission fault obviously lies within the transmission being in safety mode therefore limiting how fast u can drive it.

Need to know more, water damage? as in flood......... how far under water........ error codes, I know you cant get in but really........... u need to get in to find out the codes.

My dad and I have been repairing a "repairable writeoff" but it wasn't water damaged, but again......... random faults for you.

What year model lumina, v6 or 8 or......

Another idea, again u need to know faults but you'd have to get a Auto Electrician to check all the sensors and solinoids including the O2 sensors in the exhaust.

PS. As for the door locking thats seriously odd....... Sounds more like a short or something there from maybe some dried up water linking some circuts....... I can guaranetee these are all probably small problems, just finding them is the hard part.

-- A seriously smart idea to try............ goto supercheap get some electrical cleaning spray......... like maybe 4 cans of it....... (unhook ur battery) go around the entire car and unplug/replug everything and spray every single plug etc with that stuff, including all under the steering column, dash, anywhere a sensor is.......... spray your whole TCU under the car just everywhere u can. It may not help at all, but it'll make sure the contacts are all clean & check all ur fuses)

** Sorry for the mass post but the mechanics who couldn't get into the ecu, was this before u had the battery replaced? ......... if so there probably wasn't enough power to power the ecu.....

[bigdaddycool]

Relating to your water in the oil stuff - Safety idea fill ur tank near full, run a bottle of method thru the tank.......... it'll get rid of any water that may be in the engine (fuel wise).......... if u have any in there, it could cause it to cease if u dont get it out.

[SargeRX7]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the posts. First off, based from what I can see the water level was above the dash. I believe the entire car has been submerged in fresh water. For how long, I dont know.

When they tried to connect through the system, it was with a fresh battery. The guy there said it might be one particular part in the system so he took out a computer thing which was mounted somewhere under the passenger side and put a new one in. That did not help. I recall something about TCM problem and they could not access that. The guy sprayed most of the terminals with WD40 to remove any corrosion. Well the only ones he sprayed are the ones under the steering there is like a grey box with 4 ports coming out of it. He checked the terminals on the ECU and he believes the ECU is still in good condition. No signs of corrosion.

What are the main computer components I should have cleaned and where are they located? Ive unplugged every cable from the engine bay and cleaned each terminal from there. All fuses are still in tact. Would faulty O2 sensors stop the speedo from displaying the speed or is that a computer related problem? I know the sensor for the speedo is in the back of the transmission, obviously something I couldnt look at.

My brothers friend drove the car and he had the same one(VZ Lumina 05 V6). As soon as he drove it he said the O2 sensors are gone. I could believe they are playing a role in the problems because if the car was flooded I'm sure water will travel through the exhaust system and possibly corrode the O2 sensors.

It is believed there is no water in the engine. The engine when in neutral sounds very smooth, clean and the way it should. Only when it gets put into gear it just does not want to move. The gear box IS shifting gears but the power just isnt there.

Any further info would be great!

Oh and on a note, what should the temp gauge be at on these cars? How long of driving does it usually take for the fans to begin cooling the radiators/engine bay?

Cheers

[SargeRX7]

Oh and I will note something I just tested. I started up the car because it was parked on the other side of the street. I drive up and go to do a uturn and noticed reverse had NO loss of power. I put it parallel with my kerb and floored it in drive, it hardly moved. Put it in reverse and it wheel spinned then gained traction. Is this an indication that reverse gear is either working and the drive gears are gone or would the car only limit power on the drive gears?

[torana355]

The temp gauge sits on the 1/4 line for me. I think the thermostat opens at 95c.

[andyman]

If the car starts there should be no reason a mechanic etc cant get into the computer. I've been tuning a while and I also have just a scan diag device.......... which reports errors........... the only thing I could think of if nobody can get in is if the BCM possibly isn't updating the security code as it changes.

You should definitely be able to get in, if u cant something big is playing up (by big I mean a main device, BCM, TCM, ECU)

Suggestions I have which probably wont help:

1. Try a relink of the vats system (relinks the bcm to everything for the immobiliser side of things).
2. Powerchain errors generally are some kind of fault, no doubt a sensor one or more in your case.
3. Transmission fault obviously lies within the transmission being in safety mode therefore limiting how fast u can drive it.

Need to know more, water damage? as in flood......... how far under water........ error codes, I know you cant get in but really........... u need to get in to find out the codes.

My dad and I have been repairing a "repairable writeoff" but it wasn't water damaged, but again......... random faults for you.

What year model lumina, v6 or 8 or......

Another idea, again u need to know faults but you'd have to get a Auto Electrician to check all the sensors and solinoids including the O2 sensors in the exhaust.

PS. As for the door locking thats seriously odd....... Sounds more like a short or something there from maybe some dried up water linking some circuts....... I can guaranetee these are all probably small problems, just finding them is the hard part.

-- A seriously smart idea to try............ goto supercheap get some electrical cleaning spray......... like maybe 4 cans of it....... (unhook ur battery) go around the entire car and unplug/replug everything and spray every single plug etc with that stuff, including all under the steering column, dash, anywhere a sensor is.......... spray your whole TCU under the car just everywhere u can. It may not help at all, but it'll make sure the contacts are all clean & check all ur fuses)

** Sorry for the mass post but the mechanics who couldn't get into the ecu, was this before u had the battery replaced? ......... if so there probably wasn't enough power to power the ecu.....

the PIM (powertrain interface module) will cause no communication to the DLC (Diagnostic Line Connnector) the pim runs the can bus signal around the car and links the various components, the DLC also utilises the pim to work, i will have to look in my book, but im sure it does,

if the pim is dodgy or cooked, you wouldnt be able to sync with the computer, it will also prevent different components 'talking' to each other and cause faults,

[bigdaddycool]

never head of a pim yet, explain ......... Body Control Module(BCM) (mounted on front of engine), Transmission Control Unit (TCU) - mounted on transmission, Engine Control Unit (ECU) - mounted in left passenger side.

Am I missing something?

[vsholden01]

I had the similar check drive train warning in my 2004 VZ Lumina (but car drove fine). I took it to Holden and they replaced the O2 sensor and cleared the dtcs. My wife’s commodore lost all power and had a top speed of 60 kmh and would not rev. The problem was a blocked cat converter. I am no mechanic but if your car has been under water it could be possible. Good luck.

[SargeRX7]

never head of a pim yet, explain ......... Body Control Module(BCM) (mounted on front of engine), Transmission Control Unit (TCU) - mounted on transmission, Engine Control Unit (ECU) - mounted in left passenger side.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for this info. I thought the unit mounted of the front of the engine is the ECU. Looking under the steering wheel there's a gray plastic boxed labeled Body Control Module:S

Will WD40 work to clean the terminals?

[bigdaddycool]

Well if I'm wrong about what the front one is, it'll be the PCM, Powertrain Control Module. ....... too many . I'm not sure why your using WD40 to clean terminals.......... dont even know why the mechanic did it.

I'm a computer tech, that'd be like me using WD40 to clean ram or what not........... it has a lubricant in it. lol ......... does WD dry like it's not there? no.

You should really be using some Electrical Cleaner from supercheap. It's not the best available, but it's not WD40.

[PaulSV6]

Oh and on a note, what should the temp gauge be at on these cars? How long of driving does it usually take for the fans to begin cooling the radiators/engine bay?

Cheers

Both the VZ's we have at home my SV6 & dad's exec, they both sit at 1/4 mark, usually takes around 20mins.

[Benboy]

'caveat emptor' - LET THE BUYER BEWARE. Under the circumstances, it's up to the buyer to check the vehicle and satisfy themselves it is what they expect it to be. You would not have any claim against the seller if it was a private sale.

[SargeRX7]

'caveat emptor' - LET THE BUYER BEWARE. Under the circumstances, it's up to the buyer to check the vehicle and satisfy themselves it is what they expect it to be. You would not have any claim against the seller if it was a private sale.

What if I have proof the seller forged a log book? I traced the car back to Queensland but the log book provided stated the original buyer lives in NSW. I rang a few people and all the information is false.

[Torquative]

now that would be something for a solicitor because you'll get 50 different answers from here ...

[andyman]

never head of a pim yet, explain ......... Body Control Module(BCM) (mounted on front of engine), Transmission Control Unit (TCU) - mounted on transmission, Engine Control Unit (ECU) - mounted in left passenger side.

Am I missing something?

yep the pim lol,

its located above the relays in the fuse box under the steering colum, its a smallis black box,

it links components in the can-bus system, integrates componenets that arnt compatible to can and allows comunication through the dlc

Well if I'm wrong about what the front one is, it'll be the PCM, Powertrain Control Module. ....... too many . I'm not sure why your using WD40 to clean terminals.......... dont even know why the mechanic did it.

that would be ecm, if they utilized a pcm, like older commodores, it would incorporate the transmission and engine in one module, but as they are seperate, its called a ecm

[taxi]

A Stat write off is any vehicle that has been in salt water upto the skirts and for fresh water any vehicle that has been in water for less than 2 days is clasified as a repairable writeoff. With fresh water it is also upto the discression of the insurance company. A Repairable writeoff has to pass a Teir 3 inspection and also a roadworthy.

I have recently bought vz water damaged and am experiencing the same problems all comptuer modules and wiring looms will need to be changed and reset. All sensors will need to be changed inculding your trans sensors. so you will be up for quite a bit. And then there is no guarentee that there will be no error codes. Water Damaged cars that have spent a while in water always have a couple of gremlins. (DONT LET HOLDEN TELL YOU YOU CANT PROGRAM A SECOND HAND BCM INTO A VZ) it can be done.