Alloytech stuff up

[frank6969]

I just found out the slight knocking noise in my 175kw motor is the timeing chain, apparently it's a build defect by Holden that the vz motors are fitted with the wrong size timeing chain and is only noticeable when the cars hit 130000km, annyone heard of this and how much it might cost to repair thanks guys

[neet_wagon]

Yeah, I've heard abit about it. Was the reason why I bought an older car like the VX instead of getting the missus a VZ or even a VE.

Drove a few low-spec VE's and I have to say I wasn't impressed what-so-ever

[kuzman89]

Yeah, I've heard abit about it. Was the reason why I bought an older car like the VX instead of getting the missus a VZ or even a VE.

Drove a few low-spec VE's and I have to say I wasn't impressed what-so-ever

What does any of this have to do with his question?

[neet_wagon]

What does any of this have to do with his question?

The build defect he was referring to. I fail to see how some of the people on here got thier license, when they struggle to put two and two together......

[kuzman89]

The build defect he was referring to. I fail to see how some of the people on here got thier license, when they struggle to put two and two together......

I fail to see how you got your license when you can't even spell 'thier' properly.

Your post had zilch relevance to the question he was asking. The early vz's were the only cars with this problem, the ve had no such problems.

[shaune_m]

Hey Mate,
Did you have any luck sorting out the issue? Have heard of the same issue on a few alloytecs now which is a shame.
Good luck, hope you get it sorted soon.

Cheers

[torana355]

No need to fix it. Mines has bad timing chain rattle on startup since i got the car with 90k the clock. The problem was fixed in the VE's btw.

[rb0135]

Yep.. Just got mine replaced (lucky under warranty).

There is a fault with in the early models of the alloytec. Mine is the 190, not the 175.

I was told that is is a known fault at Holden and they hope people let it go and not get it fixed until too late (I personaly think it should have a recall on it). They said not getting it fixed, will cause major damage from the 150000km.

I was told there is a modification to the timing change components (which as mentioned above is fixed in later versions). Because of these modifications, they had to change the oil pump and other components.

Dont worry too much as the chain wont snap (not like a timing belt) but you will progressively start to loose power. On long runs (20Km+), once it was warmed up, I found that I hardly had any power from the engine.

Just my 2 cents worth. Like I said most of the info above, I was told about.. I'm no expert though.

Rob

Edit: Mine had only done 85000KM

[torana355]

Yep.. Just got mine replaced (lucky under warranty).

T They said not getting it fixed, will cause major damage from the 150000km.

I was told there is a modification to the timing change components (which as mentioned above is fixed in later versions). Because of these modifications, they had to change the oil pump and other components.

Dont worry too much as the chain wont snap (not like a timing belt) but you will progressively start to loose power. On long runs (20Km+), once it was warmed up, I found that I hardly had any power from the engine.

Mate a loose timing chain will not cause any damage (unless it snaps, ive had timing chains snap on me before!!!) or loose ANY power to the motor lol. The only downside is the noise which is a little embarrassing on such a new car.
My timing chain is loud as hell and the car has been on the dyno and made good power ect. Out of curiosity how much do Holden quote to have the fault with the timing chain fixed??

[rb0135]

Well, I have proof that I lost power because of it, and the Techline article states that, but i wont argue about it.. it was fixed and there is a difference.

Its not actually a loose timing chain that is the fault. It is another component that causes the fault, including the chain. If you are interested, i can always pull out the service card and see if it states what was replaced.

As mine was under warranty, I didnt find out the cost, but because they had to strip most of the front of the engine down (they had to replace more than a timing chain), it took over 2 days to complete (probably the apprentices were doing it) and that would probably amount to a lot just in Labour Costs (specially delaership costs).

Rob

[torana355]

Well, I have proof that I lost power because of it, and the Techline article states that, but i wont argue about it.. it was fixed and there is a difference.

Its not actually a loose timing chain that is the fault. It is another component that causes the fault, including the chain. If you are interested, i can always pull out the service card and see if it states what was replaced.

As mine was under warranty, I didnt find out the cost, but because they had to strip most of the front of the engine down (they had to replace more than a timing chain), it took over 2 days to complete (probably the apprentices were doing it) and that would probably amount to a lot just in Labour Costs (specially delaership costs).

Rob

Fair enough where is the proof out of curiosity?

[VzVzVz]

Mine's done 130,700kms. No problems to report. I looked through the workshop manual, there are no recalls or build faults related to the timing chain. The yanks would've sorted the problem out before selling the motor to Holden anyway.

[VzVzVz]

Well, I have proof that I lost power because of it, and the Techline article states that, but i wont argue about it.. it was fixed and there is a difference.

Its not actually a loose timing chain that is the fault. It is another component that causes the fault, including the chain. If you are interested, i can always pull out the service card and see if it states what was replaced.

As mine was under warranty, I didnt find out the cost, but because they had to strip most of the front of the engine down (they had to replace more than a timing chain), it took over 2 days to complete (probably the apprentices were doing it) and that would probably amount to a lot just in Labour Costs (specially delaership costs).

Rob

You got something against apprentices? Most jobs are done better by apprentices because they follow the book. Most mechanics will do something their own way and might miss important details. Sure, the hours are longer, but the job is done to the letter.

I'm only 2 months into my diesel mechanic apprenticeship, and I'm already doing a rebuild on a truck engine. I'm following procedure by the book and asking if I have any problems. The job is not rushed, and the customer can sleep easy.

[Benboy]

You got something against apprentices? Most jobs are done better by apprentices because they follow the book. Most mechanics will do something their own way and might miss important details. Sure, the hours are longer, but the job is done to the letter.

I'm only 2 months into my diesel mechanic apprenticeship, and I'm already doing a rebuild on a truck engine. I'm following procedure by the book and asking if I have any problems. The job is not rushed, and the customer can sleep easy.

Good on you for having a go. Hopefully your employer only charges customers an hourly rate to cover the cost of an apprentice, NOT the full going rate for a qualified mewchanic !!

[VZ-Rob]

Never had an issue and mine's just cranked over 150K
motor still feels fresh n' tight

[supercellkid]

Once upon a time before I had enough money to buy my VZ calais, I had a 1997 Saab CD xxxx (cant remeber model numbers) It was an ok car apart from huge costs of repair (being euro).

There was a rattling / knocking coming from engine. I did the Handle of screw driver in ear thing (to use like stethoscope) and was relatively certain it was the timing chain.

One day while driving behind someone who was doing 60k in a 70k zone I got shitti and dropped from 4th to 2nd and engine would have hit roughly 5500rpm. While about midway through the overtake maneuver there was a very slight bang/loud knock and the engine went dead.

RACV towed me to the nearest Saab specialist (only one in Geelong) it was quickly determined that the timing chain had snapped (they will do this when loose, esp @ high RPM) (all I had to do was adjust the tensioner as it was an adjustable type)

So anyway, apparently with modern high output motors, esp those with high comp rations of 9:1 or greater the clearance between the piston tops and the bottom of the valves is very little, in fact they go beyond each other except they are timed to miss. So when or If your Cam suddenly;y stops turning because timing chain snapped (esp at high RPM) your crank will or rather can continue to turn for up to 2 or 3 seconds. In turn your pistons will continue to suck, squeeze, bang, blow. (thanks Mr Adams Newport TAFE) therefore your piston tops will have intercourse with the bottoms of your valves, thus bending every single one of them.

I can only imagine its the same with the Alloy tech as I have never had that prob with my VZ alloytech 190 (knck on wood) /me knocks on head. (now at 151,000Km (im a storm chaser))

So if it turns out that the Timing chain cannot be tightened by adjusting the Timing chain Tensioner then you MUST REPLACE the chain or you are up for many more dollars that $520.If it does Snap. Now if your concerned that I might not know what Im talking about, at least with the alloy tech, just ask your local Alloy tech expert. As in someone who is likely to have seen it all. Surely they will have come across Snapped Timming chains before. Ask them was there other damage caused after timing chain snapped.

BTW the SAAB dealer wanted $4500 to fix my saab motor. Turns out my brother in law was very good with Euro cars like Merc, Jag, BMW and esp Volvo. He quoted me $1500 of which $1400 was paid up front. He ended up not doing the work. Instead he said that I owed him for fines (not true) and the hire of $500 bombs he had loaned me while I waited almost a year for him to fix. In other words he was coming up with every bull dust excuse he could find to get out of doing it or paying me back.

The moral of that part is never EVER pay up front. I did coz 1) he was family, and 2) I felt sorry for him, as he (apparently) had been giving alot of credit to single mums and crap, and was broke)( oh yeah and he didnt even ask for money up front). I later find out he is a compulsive liar. Im worried if I say his name ill get in some kind of crap esp after all the defamation crap Ii have been hearing about on the news with re to Facebook and the like. Anyone know if I can legally say his name? Coz I would hate for him to work on any of you guys cars? Its not a bad idea to get feedback or reviews before undertaking large amounts of money to an unknown motor mech.

How do I hack TCS on my VZ calais? I want a little sideways action (please post me a oood link)

[simz1989]

Oh no mines at 63,XXX Km's, im not looking forward to this potential problem...

[richardpalinkas]

i have an 04 model, i have hit 156xxx and i have noticed from the first time i bought it (100,000), there was a noise at startup for about 2 sec, but never had any problems with the car. a little leaking from the waterpump i observed a few thousand k ago, but after i cleaned it off with degreaser, i have not seen any leaks yet. as far as im aware, the vz is a good engine, and the only downfall is in performance modifications. but as i said, 156xxx km and still going strong, and im not a light driver either, i do push the limits and never skipped a beat.

[Hangman]

Most jobs are done better by apprentices

I have nothing against apprentices, everyone's gotta learn somehow, but this made me chuckle.

[CRUSTIN]

I am a heavy diesel apprentice, so i know what i'm talking about. Apprentices make more dumb mistakes than tradesmen, but a tradesman may let something go because its not on the job sheet or its not broken yet.
Happens every day, not good when you ignore a safety problem on council buses. Some tradesman treat the vehicle as their own, others don't care.

But i would still rather have a tradesman work on my car, sorry VzVzVz.

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

VE's can suffer the same problem also. Along with models in the US with a similar engine.

There was a post in the VE section recently on this issue.

Holden are charging upwards of $2000 to fix.

[Little Red VZ Go-Kart]

VE's can suffer the same problem also. Along with models in the US with a similar engine.

There was a post in the VE section recently on this issue.

Holden are charging upwards of $2000 to fix.

VE??? The Omega models? Friend's 2010 VE Omega (company car) makes a brief "clacking" sound when starting up. This is curious. It's only done 39,000km, but has been absolutely thrashed — I certainly wouldn't drive my car where I've been in his (despite the mirth and horror...). Shows you what happens when people have company cars and not too interested in looking after them... Timing chains, tapsters or his steel-toed boot tapping to "Reservoir Dogs"??

[1_johnboy]

The yanks would've sorted the problem out before selling the motor to Holden anyway.

Selling the motor to Holden? isnt the alloytec a aussie motor made at the melbourne engine factory?

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

Selling the motor to Holden? isnt the alloytec a aussie motor made at the melbourne engine factory?

Yes. Also co-engineered by Holden.