Boiling over! No water!

[Ray De Man]

Hi guys, hope you can help?

Yesterday coming back from shopping my car displayed the dreaded "over heating" message! The dial was in the red and climing, so had to pull over on the side street but car then displayed Drivetrain warning and car started to cough like it was gonna die!

I turned it off once stopped to see if fan would cool it down but no... So turned it off, fans went off, opened bonnet to see steam venting from coolent overflow (yellow dipstick thingy) with this burpling noise. I braved opening cap after noise stopped to see howmuch water i got and none was seen. So I asked a friendly guy if I can get some water, so armed with 5 bottles of water I start pouring.... 5 liters or so went in WTF where did it go?

So I started car everything normal apart from drivetain symbol still showing. Nursed it back towards home and again it started to overheat but fan kicked in and kept the coolent temp between 106-119 C. Got home checked water after it cooled to find approx 3 liters had evapourated (no puddles or water marks) so filled it up and let it idle to see if any air trapped. Temp was fine staying midway on gauge, checked for leaks and nothing, so turned it off and left over night.

Started this morning everything fine, even the Drivetrain warning had gone, drove down the road 60 kph and fine got to a 80 kph stretch and it started again, pulled over let the fan cool it (which it did) to half way and drove back home. On idle it making this whiny/droney noise somewhere in engine bay + erupting coolant.

Weekly checks of topping up water since I bought the car last year, which was bare minimal amounts of water + the usual other checks, oil etc...

So can someone please tell me whats going on? I checked the other forum pages which I understand but where the hell is my water going? Is this bad news and gonna be expensive. I 've only had this car since late Aug 2010, do you think i'll be cover under warrentty?

Thanks for any help in advance guy n gals.

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

Stuck closed thermostat?

[bogan_vk]

rip the thermostat out and drive it without a thermostat in it should be ok like that, then if it is just get a new thermostat and gasket a friends car was displaying the same symptoms until i ripped out the thermostat so he could drive it until he got a new one. your water is going out the overflow.

[Ray De Man]

Thought it might be the thermo as bottom pipe not getting as hot as the top hose. How do you remove the thermo? Thought its a bitch to get to on the alloytecs as its positioned somewhere behind the engine. How much do you recon its gonna cost to call lube mobile to replace part or is it cost effective to source the part myself and grab some help?

[VZ_commo91]

I was under the impression that if the bottem hose was cooler than the top, the thermostat was fine. ( as it goes through the radiator at good speed )
Because mine is noticeably cooler than the top hose, and I have no problems.

[Ray De Man]

Thanks for your response.

So am I looking at a water pump issue or head gaskets or something else?

[Ray De Man]

Ok just got an quote for a water pump including parts, labour and GST of $ 267.30 . To investigate thermo i'm looking at extra charges on top and per hour charges. Is this a good price guys?

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

A reasonable price. Pump, coolant and labour.
Although changing the thermostat at the same time would be hedging your bets.

[Ray De Man]

Yeah I might be best just to do both at the same time. Somehow I can see this doubling or even tripling in price.

But what worries me that the mechanic is gonna take me for a ride and say. This, this and this is faulty and needs replacing even if they were still in 100% working order. How can you tell or do you just trust them?

[vsl67]

Any chance your overflow was dumping water constantly because it wasnt bled? and yes it will cause what you have descride also you could possibly have a leak in the heater core or a leak that only starts when things expand when hot and close up when cool I have seen them all before

[Ray De Man]

Really? Well don't know how to bleed that mate? Can you explain?

Just know I took it for a drive just to by any chance things might change... And well.... Put coolant temp mode on, drove for about a good 20 mins and temp was displaying 108c most of the time but would then rise to 119 and both fans would come on. Drove fine and never rose more then 3/4. One thing tho, it was making this fart noise (like placing a leaf between your lips and blowing) only when accelerating from traffic lights.

Is there some sort of treatment that I can put in to seal as a temp thing? Could this treatment help lubricate a sticky thermostat?

[Ray De Man]

Bump anyone?

[Krisp]

any water coming out of your exhaust?

[Ray De Man]

None mate, just the normal exhaust fumes.

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

See step 2.

[Ray De Man]

Thanks that info mate. Didnt know it had a bleed valve on on these radiators but will try.

[Ray De Man]

Ok I had the guys come and have a look and he said it's definetly the water pump. He replaced it but im still having problems, called them back and he is basically saying the thermo is sticking and needs replacing aswell. He quoted me $863.64 including GST for part and fitting. Coolent would need to be changed again as he recommended (was changed with water pump) and at an extra cost!
Am I getting ripped off here??? What do you guys suggest???

[gleamodawn]

Yeah, I had the same issue with my VT ., Had the whole cooling sysem done, new radiator, water pump, hoses, thero, for about $700

[Ray De Man]

$700 is pretty good, did you know someone in the business or you replaced parts yourself? Also would expect parts to be cheaper for the older Ecotec engines.

I'm just thinking im getting ripped off and $900 is abit steep!

[CRUSTIN]

I highly doubt the thermos would fail the same time as the pump. And that noise you say you heard, did it happen with high revs, or just under acceleration? Did he show you the old pump and where it failed? Because at least on the buses that i work on, when a water pump fails there will always be evidence that most people would recognize(Broken blades, worn blades, bent shaft, excessive clearance of blades to housing) .

Did you ask him to change the water pump, or did he diagnose it? If he picked that as the problem, and it didn't fix it, you either shouldn't have to pay for it, or he has to fix the problem for free. If not, go somewhere else mate. Otherwise he can keep diagnosing another problem for you to pay for.

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

Ok I had the guys come and have a look and he said it's definetly the water pump. He replaced it but im still having problems, called them back and he is basically saying the thermo is sticking and needs replacing aswell. He quoted me $863.64 including GST for part and fitting. Coolent would need to be changed again as he recommended (was changed with water pump) and at an extra cost!
Am I getting ripped off here??? What do you guys suggest???

If its the Coolant thermostat (not thermo fans) we are talking about, that price is bull. Get another quote. Parts, thermostat, gasket, o-ring, coolant. And labour $$$$.
What location in Melb do you live?

[Shorty33]

I had a similar problem with my VZ V6. First mechanic said I had blown a head gasket. Luckily, I didn't start spending big bucks too quickly. Second mechanic did a lot of diagnostics and pinned the fault down to a faulty radiator cap. It lets coolant out, into the overflow reservoir, but doesn't allow it to return, and that explains your symptoms. A new cap, and I've had no problems since.

[Little Red VZ Go-Kart]

$864 to replace the thermostat and.... — Jeeeeesus!!! He's having a field day with your purse strings!
Radiator caps are an expendable item and will require replacement over time. But thermostats hardly, even realistically, warrant an almost thousand-dollar service. Take your car, and your wallet, somewhere else.

[Ray De Man]

I highly doubt the thermos would fail the same time as the pump. And that noise you say you heard, did it happen with high revs, or just under acceleration? Did he show you the old pump and where it failed? Because at least on the buses that i work on, when a water pump fails there will always be evidence that most people would recognize(Broken blades, worn blades, bent shaft, excessive clearance of blades to housing) .

Did you ask him to change the water pump, or did he diagnose it? If he picked that as the problem, and it didn't fix it, you either shouldn't have to pay for it, or he has to fix the problem for free. If not, go somewhere else mate. Otherwise he can keep diagnosing another problem for you to pay for.

Hi mate.
I had a feeling it wasnt related to the water pump but more towards the thermo being the issue. I'm no mechanic, just following whats recommended by a skilled professional to resolve the problem.

The noise I heard was at low revs from standstill but I have resolved the issue myself. It was the vacume hose that connects the to the TB, it had a split so I replaced part.

He did show me my old water pump. He said it was warped and was leaking water. To be honest I personally couldn't see any water marks on either the pump or on the block! He recommended part.

[Ray De Man]

I had a similar problem with my VZ V6. First mechanic said I had blown a head gasket. Luckily, I didn't start spending big bucks too quickly. Second mechanic did a lot of diagnostics and pinned the fault down to a faulty radiator cap. It lets coolant out, into the overflow reservoir, but doesn't allow it to return, and that explains your symptoms. A new cap, and I've had no problems since.

Thanks mate, I will buy one today see if that works. As all the prices I get are ridiculously around the same price. Hopefully my local Autobarn or bursons has the part.