Short Trips - Extra Care?

[Jesterarts]

Hey everyone,

I have a 2005 R8 with a 23*/23* cam.

Just need some advice about anything special I will need to do driving short distances.

At the moment, every morning I drive 17km to work and 17km back. So the engine has plenty of time to warm up, etc.

But, in about 2 months I am moving and I will only be driving aboiut 4km in the morning and 4km in the afternoon.

Just want to know if there is anything I should do to ensure I am not wearing the engine prematurely?

I already use Castrol Edge 10-50W and I usually baby the car in the mornings, but what else would I/should I do?

Also, of topic questions, I have the centre binnacle guages. Now my oil presure guage sits between the the 1st and 2nd lines. So just under half when I am cruising.

Now, my mate has a 2005 Monaro and his guages sits pretty much bank on half way when he is cruising.

Thoughts?

[Torquative]

I cant help but I envy you with your 17 kay commute, especially with your 4 kays!!! I'd be riding a pushy for 4 kays ;P

[TVR-190]

I drive 1.2km to work, My cars must hate me in the morning....

[Jesterarts]

I cant help but I envy you with your 17 kay commute, especially with your 4 kays!!! I'd be riding a pushy for 4 kays ;P

lol... don't. The 17km is only part of my commute.

Though I am worries about what effect this will have on the engine.

[WogBoyz]

Maybe try and take a long way home after work (if there is one) and if ur really keen do the same thing in the morning on the way to work

[Slipper]

hmm you could do what europeans do in winter, leave it outside work/home running just to let it warm up for about 20mins, make sure you keep an eye on it what could possibly go wrong :P

[heyitsEnricoPallazzo]

Buy a shitbox daily driver.

[gossie]

4k.....Walk. 30 minutes at the most for a leisurely walk=no fuel use, and strong legs. If you for some reason need to be quicker do as Torquative said..........................

[Jesterarts]

Just to confirm my question. I am not looking for alternative options to drivine 4km. I am looking for any additional maintenance measures I should adopt because I will be driving 4km.

Telling me to walk is not an option as I live in Melbourne, where is rains. Randomly

Getting a daily drive is not an options because the clubby IS my daily drive.

[ClairBear]

I would be interested in the answer too Jest. I used to drive 1.3ks to work and never gave it much thought as to engine issues - it was a Company car. On a similar note I was told once that Hearse's have ongoing issues as they drive slowly and never really have the engine opened up and I wondered at the time how true this was.

I await the expert's answers

[Jesterarts]

I did receive some info on another forum that oil temps only reach optimal levels after about 15min or driving. SO this means my oils would never reach optimal operating temp during the week.

I would have to go for a nice long drive on weekends to blow the cobwebs through.

[dijm8]

your gonna get alot of shit built up i can say that...i drove my ss for a week to work (while my daily was being fixed)...its not even 5ks away sludge started to build up under the cap etc..

[Calaber]

Jester

I'd definitely support shorter oil change intervals. Perhaps as short as every 5,000, with oil filter change. Comparitively cheap insurance and degradation of oil is the most likely outcome of short commuter style trips. Coolant should be ok as its replacement is based on length of time regardless of distance travelled. Filters, other than oil, could probably stay with the factory intervals. Trans and diff shouldn't need shorter intervals either.

[Jesterarts]

Thanks for the input calaber.

I will be surprise if I manage to even travel 5000km in a year and my service intervals will be every 6 months. So it seems I should be able to pretty much stick to my regular service routine and be fine.

Only change of behaviour will be taking the car for a long drive on weekends.

Cool.

[dijm8]

go for a long hard drive on the wkends will make it better for the following week...and plus its fun when u got some decent power behind the wheels

[Jesterarts]

go for a long hard drive on the wkends will make it better for the following week...and plus its fun when u got some decent power behind the wheels

I'll have to work on that. Mine's a bit slow. May only be running on 6 cylinders...

[Torquative]

come for a trip up this way

Personally on cold cold mornings I run the car for about 10/15 mins before I hop in, not only to warm the heater up but also just to allow the trans and engine oils to get some warmth into them before blasting onto the freeway for what is 20 minutes of 110 then an hour of stop/start/stop/start.

When we did our track day a few years back, Gary Baxter (who races the #3 Sage Holden ute) said alot of people also go off coolant temp, which doesnt help. In our case it was to keep in mind just because the coolant needles saying normal doesnt mean the oils are normal temp, so a proper cooldown is required after each session.

Coolant is a liquid, oil is an oil! Coolant heats up far quicker then oil. As he said, heat up 1 litre of water and 1 litre of cooking oil side by side, and see which one reaches 100 degrees first!

People see the coolants at its normal operating marker (like 1/4 in my car) and think its all warmed up, meanwhile the engine, trans, diff oils are still no where near their optimal operating temps.

Something else to keep in mind for those that think when the coolants right it means the engines at operating temp

[WogBoyz]

Thanks for the input calaber.

I will be surprise if I manage to even travel 5000km in a year and my service intervals will be every 6 months. So it seems I should be able to pretty much stick to my regular service routine and be fine.

Only change of behaviour will be taking the car for a long drive on weekends.

Cool.

Hey mate

I drive to work takes me about 10/15 minutes in bad traffic without traffic 5/10 mins ive never had any problems, no sludge or anything under my oil cap, i use Royal Purple 5w30 and there oil filter changed every 4000/5000kms, i try to give it 2 - 3mins or so to warm up b4 i go, but every few nights and some weekends i go on 45min to an hour drives, ive noticed since i got the cam put in she warms up alot quicker so i guess this is good for my oil in a way

Cheers

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Cold starts are the hardest on engine oils. The more cold starts you do ie: start the engine when it is cold, not when the weather is cold, the faster the polymers in the oil break down and contaminants build up. I have said this before, it doesn't really matter how many k's you do between oil changes but rather the time or the amount of cold starts.

I would recommend changing the oil more often, it's the onlky real thing you can do as far as maintenance goes. Driving it longer and warming it up won't really do much because the car will still cool down before the next time you start it. If you do a lot of driving and don't let the car cool down between starts, then the oil will last longer.

Change the oil 3 times a year, May, August and November, regardless of K's and you will be fine.

[Trent L]

I'm just wondering why you'd be running 10W-50?

Specs say 10W-30 so a multi grade oil up to 50 is pretty thick.

If anything one would think that a thinner oil like 5W-30 or 5W-40 would be better for cold start & shorter run applications.

Just a thought ....

[Jesterarts]

I'm just wondering why you'd be running 10W-50?

Specs say 10W-30 so a multi grade oil up to 50 is pretty thick.

If anything one would think that a thinner oil like 5W-30 or 5W-40 would be better for cold start & shorter run applications.

Just a thought ....

sorry, i meant to say I use 10-60W

10-30 might be fine when the engine is new, but after it's run in alot of guys switch to a 10-60 or so as it's thicker and workes better when the engine is warm.

Plus the 10-30w recommendation also comes from an economics and fuel consumption aspect. A 10-30W will give getter fuel economy than a 10-60W but the 10-60W will protect better at temp.

Not sure if I would want to go down to a 5W... that's pretty thin... And since with time and engine wear tolerances INCREASE there would be no reason to go below manufacturer spec.

[RiCeY]

Idling the car to warm it up isnt recommended as this takes the longest. Driving straight away with light throttle warms the car up the quickest and is the best method.

As for thicker oil, if the car has been looked after (serviced correctly) all its life it shouldnt need it, clearances dont open up so dramatically over 100,000kms or so to warrant an oil that thick. My LS1 has done 170,000kms and I still use 10/30 and it still runs as quiet as it did when it was new.

[IPCOlsenVZ]

after it's run in alot of guys switch to a 10-60 or so as it's thicker and workes better when the engine is warm.

Works better in what way? Based on your situation the vehicle wont reach operating temperature.

Plus the 10-30w recommendation also comes from an economics and fuel consumption aspect.

Proof? So FPV's v8 spec for 5w20 comes soley from a fuel consumption aspect?

Not sure if I would want to go down to a 5W... that's pretty thin.

When that part of the grade is relevant it still has a higher viscosity than your 10W60 at 100C so I don't see how its 'pretty thin'. Graph it. Graph your oils

And since with time and engine wear tolerances INCREASE there would be no reason to go below manufacturer spec.

I do. I run 0W40 or 5w30 in a 93 Lancer with 200k kms. 0w20 in a 2010 focus (Aussie spec for 5w30) and in a 2010 CR-V (Aussie spec 0W30-15W40). Did a a trip to Brissy in the CR-V fully loaded, wouldn't have run anything else in it. Use 0w40 in the VZ, would loose sleep if it had anything else in it. My used oil analysis saw it was fit for use. M1 0W40

Have a look through the hundreds of UOAs and see how many use low viscosity and their results. They may not be best indicator for wear but they are something to look at. These are some highlights: Honda 20,000kms 0w-20 and 0W-30 Honda S2000 63,238kms w/bypass.

Some manufactures, Ford, Toyota, Honda and Hyundai have 5W20 as their main grade in the US. Where are the masses of failed motors due to the viscosity?

Not sure why operating temp viscosity of Xw60 is so important to you, taxi's last 500k+ kms because they are kept at operating temp. Its getting there which causes most wear.

At the end of the day use what ever makes you sleep at night.

[Jesterarts]

Works better in what way? Based on your situation the vehicle wont reach operating temperature.

Based on my situation my vehicle won't reach operating temp MOST of the time. But sometimes it will. So why wouldn't I use an oil that will work in all situations rather than some situations?

Proof? So FPV's v8 spec for 5w20 comes soley from a fuel consumption aspect?

Never said soley did I? Please don't try to put works in my mouth. Aside from that, it's fairly common knowledge that oil recommendations are based on fuel efficiency and emissions perspective. For someone who seems to think they know alot about this stuff I am surprised you didn't know this.

When that part of the grade is relevant it still has a higher viscosity than your 10W60 at 100C so I don't see how its 'pretty thin'. Graph it.

This is incorrect. I suggest you look at your graphs again.

5W-30 @ 100C = 10.4 cSt
10W-60 @ 100C = 15.6 cSt

Or am I interpretting the data wrong?

Not sure why operating temp viscosity of Xw60 is so important to you, taxi's last 500k+ kms because they are kept at operating temp. Its getting there which causes most wear

Because this is what was recommended to me for my particular engine setup at the time by someone in the know about oils. Now, my circumstances are changing and I am looking for advice again. I thought that would have been quite evident in this thread.

I definately see where you are coming from sincemy car will not be mainly doing short trips, but I don't get why in your opinion it's fine to go below manufacturer spec but not above? In particlar with the "W" grade since a car is ALWAYS going to be cold at some point while may not reach temp in all cases.

[IPCOlsenVZ]

Based on my situation my vehicle won't reach operating temp MOST of the time. But sometimes it will. So why wouldn't I use an oil that will work in all situations rather than some situations?


Never said soley did I? Please don't try to put works in my mouth. Aside from that, it's fairly common knowledge that oil recommendations are based on fuel efficiency and emissions perspective. For someone who seems to think they know alot about this stuff I am surprised you didn't know this.


This is incorrect. I suggest you look at your graphs again.

5W-30 @ 100C = 10.4 cSt
10W-60 @ 100C = 15.6 cSt

Or am I interpretting the data wrong?

I never quoted that you said ‘solely’ I simply asked it in a question hence the question mark. I never stated I know a lot, I know nothing. I was asking questions so I (and others) could gain an understanding from your perspective which is why during that post I did not state you make any changes, I simply wrote it for thought and discussion (not trolling).

When the 5w part of the grade is relevant (eg Edge 5w30 - 71.4cSt @ 40C) it has a viscosity that this thicker than your 10w60 at 100C (24cSt @ 100C) so I was wondering why you said 5w is “pretty thin”?

I definately see where you are coming from sincemy car will not be mainly doing short trips, but I don't get why in your opinion it's fine to go below manufacturer spec but not above? In particlar with the "W" grade since a car is ALWAYS going to be cold at some point while may not reach temp in all cases.

It’s not my opinion to go lower. My opinion is to use the manufactures recommendation or use whatever makes you sleep at night, and in my case it’s the latter. I was simply pointing out that going below may not be the end of the world for the motor which is why I subbed in links and examples to once again provoke thought.

Side ‘thought’ note: will the battery’s reliability be reduced by continual short strips?