VZ valve failure, options?
Hi, I just inherited my parents 2005 VZ the other day. Its in pretty good condition and was running well apart from a slight vibration during idle which was only evident every now and again.
I drove it from Wodonga to Melbourne (all highway km's, about 400km) the other night and it was running really well, picked a car enthusiast friend up to show it to him and he agreed it was in good condition and running well.
Anyway, we were waiting at a red light when the car stalled. Was a clean quick stall, no warning or anything. So I went to restart the car and it sounded like the engine was destroying itself, loud metallic banging coming from under the bonnet. Switched the ignition off quickly and pushed the car off to the side of the road.
RACV mech came out and started the car, identified the fault to be inside the engine and arranged for a tow to the holden dealership near me.
Got a call back form holden yesterday, apparently the valve above cylinder 3 is still compressed and the rocker arms are bent. They told me the head has to come off at which point I asked for a quote for repairs.
Im expecting a call back from holden today, but Im not sure what the best option might be. I have found replacement engines on ebay for $1450, I'm sure the wreckers have similar prices, plus shipping to holden and the cost to swap them around. I suspect the cost of an engine replacement might be equivalent to holdens repair quote.
Im just worried the current engine might not be in great condition, I service my cars every 5000km religiously, I know my parents don't service their cars anything like that.
Are there any specific questions I can ask holden to identify the engine condition/quality and make a better judgement? Or just go straight for an engine swap?
thx guys, Michael
Donating Member
You will probably get charged about $800 to swap the engine over at a decent mechanic (not Holden) and they might buy the old engine off you if it's repairable. If the Holden quote is over $2000, then I'd get an engine swap.
holden just called back, $4115.
they said the valve jammed and the rocker arm came off or something, their not sure if theres any piston damage or anything but they said it seemed unlikely.
Anywhere I should be calling to look at getting a new engine?
Holmart will have them but they are a bit pricey.
I'm going into holden in about an hour to get a written quote to see exactly what they are charging for. So shitty, I had the car for less than 6 hours before this happened. I wasn't flogging it either, I put my foot down at one point about 20minutes before it stuffed up but nothing past 4000rpm. grrrrrrr.
Donating Member
I'm guessing it's a V6 yeah? Where abouts in Melbourne are you?
I'm in burwood, the car is at the penfold holden 2 minutes walk from me. Yeah, sorry , I should have said its a V6 berlina.
The quote from holden:
labour: $1573
parts: $2049.3
sublets: $492.75
total: $4115.05
Parts: primary and secondary chains replaced, 3 tensioners and all gaskets and bolts.
sublets is to overhaul single head.
they also said there might be more damage further down once they start doing the work once I give them the go ahead, piston bearings etc. He said they doubted there would be any but it didn't leave me feeling very optimistic about commiting to the repairs.
A ballpark quote for an engine swap if I provide them the engine was $1500
Donating Member
Even if there wasn't anymore damage, they would tell you there was, that's just the way Holden work.
$1500 is alot. My brother got a V6 swapped in Carrum Downs for his old VU ute. In pretty sure it was about $800 for labour. Plus, when he got his L98 swapped in his VZ SS, the mechanic bought the old engine off him which bought the price down about $500, not sure if the other mechanic bought the V6 or not.
Shop around for an engine, and ask a couple of independent mechanics for a price. Otherwise I'll give you the number of the guy in Carrum Downs.
might be the better option to just replace the engine, although theres no harm in getting a second opinion and a quote from a non-dealership, might be a little more tolerable, and no doubt engine installation would be cheaper there too
Do the swap yourself!! 2 engine mounts, bell housing bolts from trans, wiring loom and little stuff like radiator hoses and all, easy ESP for a 6!!!
made some calls this afternoon. A mechanic in coburg managed to source 2 engines for me, both with about 118,000km on them. He asked for the engine number first to make sure they would be compatible. $2200 for one with no real warranty or anything, and $2600 for the other with 3 month warranty on parts and labour. He offered free delivery to my area as well.
A friend has told me he should be able to get an engine jack and we might be able to try it ourselves, or he recommended an apparently good mechanic to me who is just 8km from holden so towing should be cheap and he should be able to install it cheaper than holden.
I'm keen to give it a go myself, just for the experience, I never had to do any mechanical work on my VS, lots of electrical though haha (fuel ignition and speaker install). It's really bad timing for me and the other friend though, we are both finishing up uni and don't have the spare time for this so it might just have to go to his mechanic.
does it all sound reasonable? I have never had to do anything like this before so sorry for the 50 thousand questions, my VS was amazingly reliable.
are there any questions I should ask the guy sourcing the engines or anything I can do to suss out the new engines are not going to be lemons?
Donating Member
Does the $2600 include labour?
Spoke to my brother this afternoon, he paid $2200 for an ecotec with 130xxxkm's including labour. But being the alloytec I'd assume it's going to cost more, but definitely less than Holden.
yeah I guess so, he said $2600 with warranty and labour. Covered for three months and was willing to deliver to holden for them to install. I assume he wouldn't mind going another 8km to another mechanic :P. It sounded good but I'd def make sure I get that warranty in writing and I'd really like to see that motor before he delivered it. Also no boltons, -alternator etc, but thats all in good nick from my engine so no worries. He grabbed my details off me and called holden so they could give him the engine number, so his checked that the motors his found are going to be compatible.
The one he found for $2200 came with no warranty at all, certainly not interested in that.
It all sounds alright, I'm just worried about getting a dud engine. No different to being worried about further complications with the expensive holden repair job I suppose.
Give commodore frenzy a call and c what they can do
borrowed some money (broke final year uni student), asked for the $2600 motor. Getting it delivered to an apparently great mechanic on Monday (even the guy delivering the motor said the mechanic sounded like a top bloke). Engine swap is going to cost $450. I asked if he had anyone he knew who could tow the car for me, gave me his mates number, car is getting towed from holden on Monday to the new mechanics for $65.
holden dealership: $4115.05 to repair a suss motor with possible piston and bearing damage (unknown)
replacement engine: $2600
fitting: $450
towing: $65
total: $3115
exactly $1000 cheaper than holden lol. The engine has a three month warranty and the guy asked for my engine number before he even bothered telling me if he could get an engine or not, at this point in time I didn't realise the engines had to be matched.
I hope theres no further complications, should have it all sorted by next week
Donating Member
Good stuff. Don't forget to change your engine number with vicroads, insurance and finance company/bank.
Donating Member
got the car back the other day, the mechanic lost two of his workers so was a bit backed up with work haha. Seems to be running well, smoother than the old engine
While at the mechanic we had a look inside the old engine, one side was pretty clean, but the other, where the failure occurred looked like it had some gooey oil on it. Suspect something suss was going on here, looks like maybe low oil pressure and poor flow, heating issue or lack of service. The rest of the engine is in really good condition though so I'm thinking we might try and rebuild it and cover some of the expenses.
old engine: - located in Burwood Melbourne.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/IMG_0191.jpg
Donating Member
Oh that's alright. Good to know you didn't get ripped off by Holden.
Take it out/Take it Back
Whats the timing look like? I've seen one of these motors where it spun the chain on the main sprocket, and pushed the piston up into the valves with so much force it snapped the cam girdles in the head.
You could always just keep the motor and tear it down yourself. Good for a learning experience if you ever run into issues again. Only thing to be aware of is you wont have the cam locking tools to ensure they dont turn over.
Originally Posted by ari666
yeah we were going to tinker with the motor ourselves unless someone was interested in it for a rebuild for their own projects. We might rebuild it and try and sell it at a later date, or rebuild it stronger and swap them back in later ourselves
Cam timing looks fine, the mechanic wanted to pull off the timing chain and measure it because he was interested in seeing exactly why it failed, but his too busy with his backlog of work.
I wonder if it was a timing chain that caused the problem.
Cause mine has funny idling issues too,
I wonder if yours was doing the same as mine???
Have a listen to mine in this video and let me know if yours sounded like that?
Listen to the entire video cause I'll get someone to tap the accelerator and ull hear the more evident ratlle towards the end of the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZbC4rnRjc
Anyway don't really wana hijack ur thread so this is my thread about the issue:
Noisy V6 alloytec - rattle in front of engine, sounds like a diesel. Please help.
Ur help is appreciated.
Dave.
Last edited by CAPRILICIOUS WL; 06-11-2011 at 11:11 PM.
Check out My WL CAPRICE
http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...price-l-k.html
hmm looked at the vid. The old engine was looked at and listened to right before it died by me and a friend. No noise at all. 20 minutes later the engine was dead while idling at a red light. The new engine actually has a bit of a ticking sound, kind of like the higher pitched sound yours was making but maybe not as bad. My new one certainly does not have any rattle :/.
We wont be making any effort to tow the old engine back home until after the 25th and pull it apart and take a look then, will update the thread and let you know then if we find anything suss. When I first started this thread all I could find with my own research was a mountain of idle problems for these engines, thats why I'm not so stressed about the small noise coming from the new engine. I'm taking it real easy with it and slowly break it in. I just have to hope the previous owner looked after it. Lack of service seems to be a big issue for them.
Strangely enough mine had just slightly less than 140,000 on it too when it died. Have you tried taking it to a mechanic? The mechanic I got to install mine did a good check over on the new engine, found one of the idlers wasn't in good condition so swapped it for one off the old engine, beyond that he thought it should be fine.
vz sv6 engine noise
mine sounds not as bad as the one linked in this thread. Similar sort of noise though, also, someone there mentioned exhaust, I actually think I have noticed a bit of an exhaust leak since I got it back so thats all it might be or the injectors, I'm not really stressed about it either way, yours sounds a bit suss though
Last edited by vsMick; 07-11-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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