Noisy V6 alloytec - rattle in front of engine, sounds like a diesel. Please help.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

I have a 2004 WL Caprice V6 alloytec with 140,000 on the clock, which has been fully maintained using only the best.

Sadly There is a 'rattle' in the front of the engine. It sounds similar to a diesel engine sound.
If i rev the car, you can not hear it. Rattle is only noticeable when idling. And will only rattle if engine is warm.

Any ideas on what this might be would be appreciated?

I have changed to diagnose problem:
- oil, pentrite 10w50
- used a friction additive liqMolly.
- Changed idler pulley and tensioner pulley.

Now Iv been reading so many threads about this, I have come to a conclusion that 1 of 3 timing chains may have stretched, timing chain guides are stuffed or tensioners gone or oil drain valve issue.

I know a few members on here have had the Same or very similar problem.

Let me know how uv fixed it and how much it cost.

I think about it constantly and it's killing me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZbC4rnRjc

Cheers
Dave.

[CRUSTIN]

I highly doubt you will find your answer here, that's a complicated problem that can't be diagnosed by word, unless someone has had the exact same issue.

And by the sounds of it you have had this problem for a while. If its an internal problem it may be doing damage, get it fixed asap without running your engine if possible.

[torana355]

I agree you are best to take it to your mechanic and have it properly diagnosed. Also i think 10-50 oil is way to thick for an alloytech, im pretty sure with modern engines you need to use the correct weight oil so it can reach all the smaller oil galleries in the engine. I think a 10-40 is as thick as you should go, even in our hot summers with a high mileage engine.

[CRUSTIN]

Agreed. 10w50 is too thick, 10w40 is perfect, 10w30 good for fuel economy and a tight new engine.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

I had the nulon 10w- 40 in there just before the 10w-50.

I know for sure that it isn't the oil grade.

I pulled of the belt today to confirm that it isn't any of the pulleys nor power steering pump or alternator or water pump.
So as much as I wished it wasn't, it's defiantly internal.

Ok here's the video of the rattle, Watch the entire video as i will get someone to tap the accelerator where ull hear the rattle more evident. Or forward to 1:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZbC4rnRjc

Thanks.

[CRUSTIN]

As I'm sure you understand its almost impossible for someone to listen to an engine on a video and guess what the problem is. If being cheap results in engine damage or a bad diagnosis that's your fault. And because you know its internal you almost certainly won't trust that someone here knows exactly what the problem is, so this whole exercise is pointless.

A knock could be anything from a valve to a bearing, injector or even piston. Any noise can be made by almost anything. So any comment is speculation unless someone from Holden who sees these problems everyday makes a comment. I can say this because I'm currently in a 3rd yr Tafe block for diesel mechanical.

[torana355]

It could be a combination of a stretched timing chain and a bad tensioner. You need to get an engine stethoscope and see if the noise is coming from that part of the engine. Once again its really best to have a mechanic diagnose it properly.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

I certainly have been to several mechanics and 2 Holden service centers so far.

Many said its my tensioners, timing chains or guides.
If the engine is going to be opened I'll be getting everything related to these replaced cause I might aswell get it right from the first shot.

Iv started this thread to see what extra advise I can get from members who have had the same problem,
Where they got it fixed and how much it cost em.

[too jazzy]

hi dave my dads taxi has developed this issue a while ago but only when its stone cold, but the noise is much worse then yours it truly sounds like a real diesel engine it settles down when the engine is warm, id say it started at around the 300k mark and since then has hit around 440k, we never have bothered getting it checked out thinking its just getting old, the car never had the timing chain issue like most did around the 100k mark either.

[CRUSTIN]

I certainly have been to several mechanics and 2 Holden service centers so far.

Many said its my tensioners, timing chains or guides.
If the engine is going to be opened I'll be getting everything related to these replaced cause I might aswell get it right from the first shot.

Iv started this thread to see what extra advise I can get from members who have had the same problem,
Where they got it fixed and how much it cost em.

Trust me when I say if they diagnose it as something and say they fixed it, when the same problem comes back, they should reexamine it and try again for free, its not your problem they didn't get it right. Remember they are supposed to be the professionals, so don't bother replacing everything.

Find a shop that garuntees their work, ask them to repair it with their own diagnosis so it's their problem if they get it wrong.

Work smart not hard.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

Trust me when I say if they diagnose it as something and say they fixed it, when the same problem comes back, they should reexamine it and try again for free, its not your problem they didn't get it right. Remember they are supposed to be the professionals, so don't bother replacing everything.

Find a shop that garuntees their work, ask them to repair it with their own diagnosis so it's their problem if they get it wrong.

Work smart not hard.

I'm trusting you bro.

It's just with this stretched chain rattle issue it is highly advisable that the guides and tensioners are also replaced as they may have somehow contributed to the stretching of the chain.

[CRUSTIN]

Agreed. If you find its the chain, replace all componants associated with the chain and its tension. Sorry I meant not to change every possible cause of the noise. Changing what you said is very sensible.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

hi dave my dads taxi has developed this issue a while ago but only when its stone cold, but the noise is much worse then yours it truly sounds like a real diesel engine it settles down when the engine is warm, id say it started at around the 300k mark and since then has hit around 440k, we never have bothered getting it checked out thinking its just getting old, the car never had the timing chain issue like most did around the 100k mark either.

Hmm its doing opposite to what mine is doing, as mine only does the rattle when warm.

[CRUSTIN]

OK. Have you got a video of your noise yet?

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

OK. Have you got a video of your noise yet?

It was hiding at the bottom of post 5. Lol
But anyways here it is again.

Have a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZbC4rnRjc

[Clutchy]

Sounds pretty much the same as mine and its the timing chains has it set the check engine alarm off yet ? or have you had the balancer off at all as thats what started mine the balancer was put back on wrong and became loose over time and the gear on the crank was floating back and forth in the end it stretched the chain and sheered the pin that the cog lines up onto.

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

Sounds pretty much the same as mine and its the timing chains has it set the check engine alarm off yet ? or have you had the balancer off at all as thats what started mine the balancer was put back on wrong and became loose over time and the gear on the crank was floating back and forth in the end it stretched the chain and sheered the pin that the cog lines up onto.

Hey,
Na thankfully no engine lights have appeared as of yet.
However, yes I have had the balancer off and put on the power bond pulley kit. I hope that's not what has caused it, the power bond harmonic balancer seems to be sitting right.

So what did u end up doing did u replace the engine or did u replace the timing chains?

[MY VZ]

whats in the background of your video? R/C or dirtbikes?

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

whats in the background of your video? R/C or dirtbikes?

Lol do u mean the sound it's making?

Don't forget there are extractors and 2 1/4 twin cat back system.

[MY VZ]

i just had another listen and found my problem.
I must of had another tab open with R/C racing on it and while i was watching your video there were 2 stroke
motors screaming around, sorry about that.

Have you found the problem yet?

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

i just had another listen and found my problem.
I must of had another tab open with R/C racing on it and while i was watching your video there were 2 stroke
motors screaming around, sorry about that.

Have you found the problem yet?

No worries man, all good

Well Im pretty much certain that I have found the problem.
It will have to be the timing chain and tensioners aiding the noise.

[Andy T]

I have this same problem, low oil pressure at idol/low revs but when its up around 2,3k its fine..
Ive been told to change the o ring in the oil pick up inside the sump as it can crack then suck air under low pressure rather than picking up oil..

im gonna give that a go first as its a much cheaper option, i'll let yas know how it goes..

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

I have this same problem, low oil pressure at idol/low revs but when its up around 2,3k its fine..
Ive been told to change the o ring in the oil pick up inside the sump as it can crack then suck air under low pressure rather than picking up oil..

im gonna give that a go first as its a much cheaper option, i'll let yas know how it goes..

Yea let us know how it goes maybe upload a vid of the sound too so wr can compare it to mine.

How much have you been quoted to change the o ring?

[CAPRILICIOUS WL]

That's mine if anyone wants to have a listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaZbC4rnRjc

[Andy T]

ive had a listen sounds pretty much the same, i'll put a vid up of mine over the weekend and i havnt got a price on replacement as yet, waiting for my mechanic to get back to me but the o irng was 17 bucks from holdens