Second opinion

[JarBro]

Hey guys, awhile ago I replaced the seal on my timing cover (commodore vz) when I put it back together it would crank and sounds like it should start but doesn't.
The faults I am getting are

P2229 Barometric Pressure Sensor Voltage high
P0521 Engine Coolant temperature Sensor circuit high voltage
P0197 Engine oil temperature voltage low

and the doozy

P0343 intake camshaft Position sensor high voltage bank 1
P0348 intake camshaft position sensor high voltage bank 2

Before the car got taken out of service there was no noise/rattle and the car ran like a dream with a minor leak out the timing cover.
I find it odd that all of a sudden there could be a possible stretched timing chain fault up and on both banks, seems to me rather odd.
I am in the process of replacing the cam sensors and cam position actuator solenoid and think I might just replace the engine wiring loom harness as well. Since I had to move all that aside perhaps it did some damage to the wiring internals.

Just wondering if people have any advice or ideas on what else could be causing all this ?

 

[A9L]

Id be getting the codes cleared first and see if they return. Did you disconnect the battery before unplugging/moving wiring?

 

[JarBro]

yes, I have cleared the codes and they all returned, took it to Holden and they would have used the Tech 2.

I always disconnect the battery before I do any work.

Holden said it was a streched timing chain and quoted me about 4k for it (I live remote) Price doesn't bother me as I could do it myself but as I stated before the car was running perfect before hand and now all of a sudden it won't start because of it. Just not sure that is the case, or could it be ?

 

[diysv6]

This is left field -

Is the engine the standard alloytec or the SV6.

Per chance you have not accidently swapped over the input camshafts sensor connectors? Don't know if its possible - but..

Did you clean the connectors with any solvent type cleaners - have you introduced a film of any goo into connectors.

Have you reseated the connectors on the ECU?

Were there any earth clips etc that may be loose or been dislodged at all?
Have you a DMM and read the voltages at the camshaft connectors and the other devices which are showing up as faulty?

If you start probing the ECU connectors do not use large probes to check continuity etc. The Delphi female connectors in the plugs will get damaged very easily and then make poor contact. Then you may be up for an engine loom. GM do not carry spares for the Delphi sockets any more, they outsource these problems to an auto electrician.

The link is my research on the way to replacing my ECU a year or so back.
The last entry is about the diameter of the probes to use in the Delphi sockets at the ECU. Must be less than 0.64mm diameter.

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...dle-sv6-auto-5-speed-evap-oxygen-sensors.html

I have added a handy wiring schematic if you want to trace wiring for damage. Thanks to the member who submitted the diagrams in previous posts - these have been a life saver.

 

[diysv6]

Looking at your DTCs and comparing them with the schematics, the common wiring return to the ECU are terminals A57 and A7.
There may be a common join point for the returns of these sensors which is made within the wiring loom.
These joints could have been damaged during your timing cover repairs.

 

[JarBro]

Hi Diysv6

Thanks for your advice again, appreciate the effort you put in around here.

My engine is just the standard alloytec.
I have swapped the sensors around because the first time the camshaft faults came up it was only 1 bank and I used the other one to see if it was the sensor but it still faulted, now both have come up as faulted anyways.
I cleaned the sensors with ct-18 when the timing cover was off as I gave it all a bit of a hose off, I wouldn't have thought this would have caused any problems though.
What I found interesting was your comment about the female Delphi connections as I struggled a bit trying to put them back on before I realised I had the plugs on back to front. It could be highly possible that I might have damaged a connector and the fact that like you said the fault codes I have listed all seem to relate to a certain terminal could be a sign, I am unsure exactly how to test them but I will read up over the next few days. Same goes with the camshaft connectors.

I sent my ECU away with my BMC and PIM to be tested and they all checked out.
I will report back with my findings when I get a chance to do the tests. Hopefully it could be just a second hand wiring loom from the wreckers

Thanks again Diysv6

 

[diysv6]

It could be highly possible that I might have damaged a connector and the fact that like you said the fault codes I have listed all seem to relate to a certain terminal could be a sign, I am unsure exactly how to test them but I will read up over the next few days. Same goes with the camshaft connectors.

I sent my ECU away with my BMC and PIM to be tested and they all checked out.
I will report back with my findings when I get a chance to do the tests. Hopefully it could be just a second hand wiring loom from the wreckers

Thanks again Diysv6

Hope the fault is grit in the Delphi connector A7 - looks like the connector or the wiring common point inside the wiring loom. I've never dismantled the actual forms.
One advantage is that you buy the wiring form with the same part number series from the wrecker as the one you suspect as faulty.
I used servisol (Jaycar) and isopropyl alcohol for cleaning purposes on my Delphi connector from memory. Give a test spray to ensure that plastics are not damaged by the solvents.

I did improve my normal injector voltage with the cleaning, but the ECU was the fault.
If you have damaged the A Delphi connector plugs connectors, if you swapped them around, you have damaged the B connector also.

Good luck with the investigations.

edit: typo and grammar correction

 

[diysv6]

I have attached a couple of images - ECU pins and the A Socket - and the method I used to test continuity between the A connector and the various wiring destinations in the engine's wiring loom.
The dressmaker's pin was less than 0.64mm diameter.

The ECU socket pins must be clean, straight and not bent. If they are damaged they may distort the delicate female connectors in the A and B plugs.
Looking straight into the female connectors, if the cylindrical round shape which mates with the socket pins is spread open, then this is a possible fail point for intermittent connection problems.

The Delphi site has some good info about the correct method of assembly etc.

EDIT: added access to Delphi connector information. Good place to search around. The ECU variant is in there somewhere.


http://catalog.delphi.com/connector...ate=productDetail&start=20&productID=15459516

 

[JarBro]

Just an update Diysv6,

Worked out how to test the continuity from the delphi plugs to the camshaft plugs and the both read roughly 2ohms. Checked the oil pressure continuity also just to check it was all on the same A57 and A7 circuit and it came back with roughly 2ohms as well. So as far as I can tell A57 and A7 check out, which is odd considering all the faults were on that circuit. I checked the voltage on the camshaft sensors and I got roughly 5.15v which from what I have read is healthy.

I put the ECU back in today after sending it away to get checked and attempted to start the car and it ran for about 1-2 seconds on the first start before it died and again on the second start but after that it wouldn't go again. I did notice that the cooling fan started which has never happened before.

So back to the drawing board, I will need to borrow a scan tool again to recheck codes.
I think I might just change the timing chains to eliminate all doubt that that is not the problem.

Anyways I will reply back if I find anything new on the issue.
Cheers.

 

[diysv6]

Just an update Diysv6,

Worked out how to test the continuity from the delphi plugs to the camshaft plugs and the both read roughly 2ohms. Checked the oil pressure continuity also just to check it was all on the same A57 and A7 circuit and it came back with roughly 2ohms as well. So as far as I can tell A57 and A7 check out, which is odd considering all the faults were on that circuit. I checked the voltage on the camshaft sensors and I got roughly 5.15v which from what I have read is healthy.

I put the ECU back in today after sending it away to get checked and attempted to start the car and it ran for about 1-2 seconds on the first start before it died and again on the second start but after that it wouldn't go again. I did notice that the cooling fan started which has never happened before.

So back to the drawing board, I will need to borrow a scan tool again to recheck codes.
I think I might just change the timing chains to eliminate all doubt that that is not the problem.

Anyways I will reply back if I find anything new on the issue.
Cheers.

Hello again,
If you are not happy with some of my ideas then don't try them or get a mate who has confidence to go down this track.

Are you using a test pin in the Delphi connector less then 0.64mm? If not then don't try any testing until you satisfy that dimension. Continued probing will damage the delicate conical grip sockets.

Were you using a DMM for the ohms readings in the wiring loom? When you short the meter leads together, what reading do you get? If you get 2 ohms, the actual cable resistance in the wiring loom is 0 ohms. Wriggle the meter leads in the DMM socket and the S/C reading may improve. If you get eg 1 ohm then check all sensor wires back to the ECU Delphi plug. You may a have a broken wire and a voltage could be back feeding when it should not occur and upsetting the sensors' return responses to the ECU.

The length of physical wire from the Delphi plug to the camshaft plugs would be less than a meter? This resistance reading seems a bit high to me, I would expect less than half an ohm. maybe 0.2 ohms at worst.

Some testing ideas:
Reference Intake camshaft item 129. It has three wires at the connector.
What resistance do you get from each connection in the 129 plug back to A57, A53 and A7.
They should all be similar readings. Gently move the wiring loom to see if readings change.
I would check for continuity on all of the affected sensor plugs wires 131, 132, 133, 134 and 130 back to the Delphi terminals.
This could pick up a broken/intermittent joint inside the form.

The other bad news is that a wire from eg A57 or A7 has rubbed through into a totally unrelated circuit thus giving the queer readings eg touching a 12 or 5v feed.

Hope you don't have this issue, would be a long job coupling A7 to A57, and then momentarily touching very other connector in the Delphi socket to get a continuity reading. Shouldn't take too long but it is painstaking work. If you get a reading from an unrelated Delphi connector, then that could be the fault and you may have to split the wiring loom open.

Have you opened the loom at all? Holden use that very thin non stick insulating wrap. I have not seen the tape around, maybe RS Components carry it. An auto electrician may know of a supplier?

Hope this helps.