H
harrop.senator
Guest
Can't afford a shorter diff but asking about turbos and superchargers? Lol.
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Can I supercharge or turbo a VF evoke
- Thread starter kieran b
- Start date
Cfb_rolley
Member
To be fair, the price difference between an SV6 and an SS in some places is almost $30k at the moment, even more between an Evoke and an SS, and that's not including if you want a nice exhaust/intake/custom tune on the SS as well. People like to drop the "just buy a V8" suggestion a lot, forgetting that the price of them has gone up a fair bit, particularly the VFs, so it's not that clear cut anymore.
You could probably get away with throwing on a low boost Vortech blower kit from CAPA without worrying too much about the gearbox etc, so that isn't going to cost $30k. but you'll be at the absolute limit of what you can throw at the bottom end and box and to go any further... well that's where the decision between throwing money at a 6 vs buying an 8 gets more grey. It becomes a "how long is a piece of string" type of budget and at that point you'd either want to be doing most of the work yourself, otherwise, the V8 then becomes more cost effective despite the price difference.
There's not a lot of off the shelf stuff out there for the 3.0L, maybe look for an intake, exhaust and do a tune.
H
harrop.senator
Guest
What's so week about the boxes and bottom ends? Are they that inferior to the 3.6?
What box is it a 4l60?
I thought it'd have a 6l50 those can take some punishment and so can the 3.6's.
What box is it a 4l60?
I thought it'd have a 6l50 those can take some punishment and so can the 3.6's.
Cfb_rolley
Member
For bottom end - I assume the 3.0 LF1 is really similar to the 3.6 LFX - the pistons and crank are forged already, so no issues there. The rods are not forged though, they're powdered metal (still better than cast rods though), but the real limiting factor would be that the comp is 11.5:1 in the LFX and 11.7:1 in the LF1 - so you couldn't exactly shove 20psi of boost up it's arse without dropping the compression or going to water meth injection like the 5th gen Camaro dudes do with LFX motors in the US. Worth noting that the twin turbo version of the LFX uses a 10.2:1 comp ratio and "strenghtened" connecting rods for 12psi of boost, and then the later LF4 goes to titanium rods for 18psi (LF4 rods might be a good option if you were to build a high boost LFX I reckon).
The box - they're a 6L50e off the top of my head. Plenty good for a worked N/A 6, probably fine for a little boost, but I've heard of issues happening with big boost, and also there's probably a reason why the V8s come with the beefier 6L80e (or Tremec T56 for manuals). If it were up to me I'd at least talk to a reputable auto box builder about it.
Certainly not saying you can't put some mild boost on a 3.0 or 3.6 with an untouched box and bottom end, I think it'd be fine. I'd be when you want more power than just mild boost where the expense of building boxes and bottom ends comes in
The box - they're a 6L50e off the top of my head. Plenty good for a worked N/A 6, probably fine for a little boost, but I've heard of issues happening with big boost, and also there's probably a reason why the V8s come with the beefier 6L80e (or Tremec T56 for manuals). If it were up to me I'd at least talk to a reputable auto box builder about it.
Certainly not saying you can't put some mild boost on a 3.0 or 3.6 with an untouched box and bottom end, I think it'd be fine. I'd be when you want more power than just mild boost where the expense of building boxes and bottom ends comes in
H
harrop.senator
Guest
Depends on how much power someone wants 1 bar should double the engines power due to being forced. Is very close from a turbo anyway without losing the power from belt run.
So if it's making 180-190 now. Mild boost on a bar could be 360 atw that's a huge change. And with the turbo probably have a higher average hp/ft lbs then the V8.
Powdered metal rods are forged do they have clamp issues and lift or actual bending?
11.7:1 is doable with boost but you're right needs to be a lower boost if non e85.
I've got an 10.5-11:1 motor from the 80's and the hair drier caused to much knock over 15 psi on 98. (I can't remember what it cced out to back in the day but she's hi comp)
With e85 it can definitely be pushed some more and will be once the bodies finished and we turn the power up.
But I've seen a fair few of the lfx motors making 350-450 rwhp so I reckon the 3l could make similar to an as with tune and full exhaust system.
So may still be well worth it seeing as the v8's are going for 35-60 with 100k on the clock.
Sorry if thought I was being rude or anything I've just boosted a lot of motors not designed for it and wondered if it was a blanket like 95% of people think rule of na can't or isn't worth boosting it because of all the things " not designed to take it".
When most people are never willing to find out what things can take , just say they won't.
So if it's making 180-190 now. Mild boost on a bar could be 360 atw that's a huge change. And with the turbo probably have a higher average hp/ft lbs then the V8.
Powdered metal rods are forged do they have clamp issues and lift or actual bending?
11.7:1 is doable with boost but you're right needs to be a lower boost if non e85.
I've got an 10.5-11:1 motor from the 80's and the hair drier caused to much knock over 15 psi on 98. (I can't remember what it cced out to back in the day but she's hi comp)
With e85 it can definitely be pushed some more and will be once the bodies finished and we turn the power up.
But I've seen a fair few of the lfx motors making 350-450 rwhp so I reckon the 3l could make similar to an as with tune and full exhaust system.
So may still be well worth it seeing as the v8's are going for 35-60 with 100k on the clock.
Sorry if thought I was being rude or anything I've just boosted a lot of motors not designed for it and wondered if it was a blanket like 95% of people think rule of na can't or isn't worth boosting it because of all the things " not designed to take it".
When most people are never willing to find out what things can take , just say they won't.
Cfb_rolley
Member
Not at all rude mate! I love these kind of technical discussions haha.
e85 is something I overlooked, that might change how you'd consider the compression ratio. the powdered rods would be something I'd change if I was already pulling apart the bottom end anyway. If I wasn't touching the bottom end and just going with the high comp then I wouldn't worry about it - they're strong enough to handle it as long as you're not going mental with boost.
And I'm in the same boat as you on the "not designed to take it" thing. A 3.0 is a de-stroked 3.6 in essence, I can't see a reason that would rule out forced induction. Probably would get a bit more benefit out of the 3.0 from a turbo due to the smaller stroke being able to spin a bit higher in the RPM range. Even just 8psi of boost would make it a pretty quick 6, and the current price of a V8 means it's certainly not a complete waste of money these days - you're not gonna be spending more money than a V8 costs to get less power than a V8, like was the case a few generations ago.
I would love to put a centrifugal blower on my SV6, CAPA recommends 8-12psi with an intercooler for their kit and that would be shitloads for me, but I also don't trust myself to end up going down a rabbit hole and building an LFX with LF4 rods, a set of cams and valve springs, custom 10:1 pistons and a shitload of boost and all the supporting drivetrain to go with it... you know, the kind of rabbit hole that goes from a $10k supercharger kit to suddenly a $25k un-ending mental six cylinder project just because you can...
Anthony121
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What compression were the 2.8lt engines Holden made in Port Melbourne for Saab that were turbo? Did they have a strengthen bottom end?
H
harrop.senator
Guest
Yeah rabbit holes for sure haha. I like the traction of the side mount chargers and the ease.
But honestly that integrated exhaust manifold really makes me think a couple of s251's would be nice. Small frame turbo that flows like crazy if you can run the wheel speed lol.
Even if didn't have room between the strut tower and the head itself wouldn't be that hard only having to route one pipe per hair drier or a crossover and big single.
After buying my Mrs an alloytec , even with the tired 5 speed and the cold morning start up noise. I've started to thoroughly enjoy it.
The price of crate 6l50s and lfx I'd keep it if I didn't own enough project cars when the box or motor dies lol.
But honestly that integrated exhaust manifold really makes me think a couple of s251's would be nice. Small frame turbo that flows like crazy if you can run the wheel speed lol.
Even if didn't have room between the strut tower and the head itself wouldn't be that hard only having to route one pipe per hair drier or a crossover and big single.
After buying my Mrs an alloytec , even with the tired 5 speed and the cold morning start up noise. I've started to thoroughly enjoy it.
The price of crate 6l50s and lfx I'd keep it if I didn't own enough project cars when the box or motor dies lol.
