1989 VN Series 1 Calais Not Starting, But Cranks Over...

[Lockie_3_89_VN_Calais]

Hey there guys,

My first official post on JustCommodores here and I'm deeply sorry if I'm repeating a post, got no where else to turn for advice...

Now I've purchased a VN Calais from a mate which wasn't starting and it was on an Electronic LPG System, not Mechanical... Lovates was the brand from memory. Anyway, since I've purchased it had no luck til this day in getting her to start... Just cranks but no start... We have completely removed the LPG from the car except for the Petrol/LPG switch, which I've left in there as a Anti-Theft feature lol... But I've replaced countless things...

1. replaced fuel tank, fuel pump and fuel filter
and
2. replaced Harmonic balancer and crank Angle Sensor for 'Early VN'

I have Spark, fuel, have pressure in the rail, no leaks of pressure or actual fuel, have plenty of fuel, you can hear the pump prime, but for some reason it continuously primes and doesn't cut out after a few minutes... strange... or is that just a VN-VP thing... The immobilizer has been bypassed many years ago and wasn't an issue for my mate... My mate used the VN as a daily driver til he purchased a VX SS, he parked the VN up in his backyard in the open uncovered and after 2 months when he went to sell it, then the Calais would crank but would not start. So I've come down to the conclusion its the Fuel Injector's not opening up to let the fuel into the engine for her to start for some reason, other words, no injector pulse... I've read many JustCommodores posts to no help what so ever to my issue... I don't know if its this, being a Calais, it has the Anti Theft Deterrent system in it, would that be the reason why my injectors are not opening, cus the anti theft deterrent system is blocking the power to them as a result of the Electronic LPG removal? Or is it something to do with the EFI Relay not getting power or something???? I'm completely stuck and all alone with this issue

So what would stop the injectors from opening? I really want this car working so I can begin driving it to get my license... Thanks guys

 

[hi_ryder]

have you done an error code check? think the theft system only cuts power to the fuel pump. sounds like it could be related to the old lpg system. id be investigating under the dash more and see if you've fully removed all the lpg related wiring or not. pull the passenger side foot well kick panel off to see the engine computer. see if theres any other wires that are spliced into the loom coming off it (the engine loom). my 89 calais donor car had a gas system too and there was wires spliced in for the lpg in that exact spot.

heres a pinout for the ecu plugs. d15 + d16 are injector control.

http://s190.photobucket.com/user/v8comp/media/VN%20wiring/VNV6-4.gif.html

 

[PUSHIN]

+1 on the above, 90% sure the anti-theft just cuts out the fuel pump & sends a signal to the light under the head unit, and the other one in the cluster, and pumps out that horrid beep. if your fuel pump is priming i dare say the anti theft isn't the problem..

as stated above i'd suss out all of the LPG wiring etc and make sure everythings sweet, after checking for error codes.

 

[Lockie_3_89_VN_Calais]

Update guys,

Had a mate test the wires on the Fuel Injectors, we are getting power to them but its the ECU end of things that's the issue, the Injectors are not receiving the signal from the ECU to open them... So now we think its something to do with the EFI relay or something, Ive looked behind the drivers side kick panel, and found all the wires are a mess, cus of an aftermarket immobilizer was installed (which has been bypassed) many years ago and wasn't an issue for my mate. The only LPG thing left from what I know off is the LPG/Petrol switch which has 2 wires going to it now, a red cable with a fuse spliced half way down the cable which is attached to something behind the relay/fuse box under the steering wheel, then a green cable that has been soldered onto the purple cable on the wiring harness on the drivers side and I found the other end of the purple wire where it was cut, I think that's to the fuel pump... should I remove that switch as it could be shorting our the signal from the ECU to the Injectors???

Where is the Engine Computer? Is that the big black box that is under the steering wheel? Or is that the ECU? I am this weekend getting a 'non hacked-up' VN Series II Engine Harness from a Buick Series II engine and also the drivers side wiring harness to replace the whole thing to get rid of the whacky wiring and Immobilizer, these harnesses have not had LPG system cut into it or from what I know off no dodgy aftermarket immobilizers installed onto it...

Inputs would be great, thanks for the advice so far

 

[Hangman]

ECU should be behind the passenger side kick panel.

Not sure what "big black box under the steering wheel" you're talking about.

 

[ashleysnep]

Black box under the steering wheel will be for your power windows.

Also a SII engine harness wont fit stright on, temp sensors are in different locations so those wires are different lengths for starters.

 

[hi_ryder]

have you done an error code check? think the theft system only cuts power to the fuel pump. sounds like it could be related to the old lpg system. id be investigating under the dash more and see if you've fully removed all the lpg related wiring or not. pull the passenger side foot well kick panel off to see the engine computer. see if theres any other wires that are spliced into the loom coming off it (the engine loom). my 89 calais donor car had a gas system too and there was wires spliced in for the lpg in that exact spot.

heres a pinout for the ecu plugs. d15 + d16 are injector control.

VNV6-4.gif Photo by v8comp | Photobucket

first post in this thread dude....

 

[Lockie_3_89_VN_Calais]

Ok now I know what that Black Box under the Steering wheel is for, yeah I know where the ECU is as that's where I've been playing to get the injectors to work... Yeah their was a black box spliced onto the 2 light blue cables for injector control... and don't know if removing that has somehow killed the signal from the ECU to the injectors, I've twitched the 2 light blue wires together to see if that would fix it but till this day still nothing, power at the injectors is ok but the signal from the ECU to the injectors are not coming through meaning that they will not open to let the fuel into the engine...

I've tried with 2 different ECU's but nothing. With a Series II harness couldn't I just extend the wires to make it fit? Cus this Series I harness has been hacked up and is completely stuffed, both the ECU side as a brown wire that has been cut back which I don't know where that goes to, then on the drivers side, the wiring is a mess from the old LPG setup and Immobilizer that's why I want to replace both harnesses with unmolested ones

 

[hi_ryder]

the series 1 and 2 engine looms are slightly different. theres three plugs on the loom where it plugs in near your engine bay fuse bank, all the wires are the same but the plug heads themselves are a different shape. you can cut and splice the other plug heads on either side to make it work for you. the other thing is if your running an original early alternator for the "series 1" engine, the voltage regulator is in a different position and the plug on the later engine loom wont reach it, in which case you'll have to extend those wires. there could be other differences too but thats just off the top of my head.

anything you want to know about the ecu wires is in that link i posted. if you have a wire that you dont know where it goes read the pin out locations and find a home for it. ive got an engine loom on a series 1 that use to have gas as well, i disconnected everything and re-soldered some wires back where they were meant to go and the car runs like a swiss watch... have a careful look at everything one more time (including anything that might be spliced in the engine bay too) before you consider a loom swap, and rip out anything thats not factory.

 

[delcowizzid]

yje 2 blue wires are the injector wires each one heads out into the engine bay