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AirStrike

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Yeah, I do and I'm not happy with that fact. To paraphrase your ealier comment, you bought a car that suited your needs. So did I. I tried a longer response to your memo last night which addressed that very issue but the internet connection failed and I cbf going through it all again. Suffice it to say that if my last car hadn't been so impractical for my current needs, it would still be in my driveway. It made a mockery of all the claims that Commodores are crap.

What I drive now has no bearing on my feelings about the direction this country is taking in relation to its industrial base and I get a bit antsy when people like you just seem to say "Who gives a ****?", usually because it has no bearing on them directly.
The reason the auto industry in Australia is heading the way it is, is clearly shown by what you just posted. You purchased a vehicle that met your needs, which wasn't Australian made or designed.
I would love to see Holden stick around manufacturing here, but eventually you have to reach a point where enough is enough and it's just not viable.
 

Drawnnite

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now if only holden changes to meet the needs of what people want.

if they do want to retain the commodore name, keep it on a commodore-ish car, don't completely rebuild it as something people don't know it as. retire the name.

without a manufacturing industry we move to a service industry, the only issue I see with that is, how much of a service industry can we possibly have?
now obviously there will always be the manufacturing industry in Australia, but if there isn't enough, what happens?

we really do need to stop always importing everything from overseas and focus on what we can build in Australia, even if it costs that extra little bit, just to keep everyone in a job. if you remove that bottom level of work, a lot of people will loose out.

otherwise all aus will become is one bit warehouse.
and we aren't really located in an area of which we can be a warehouse to lots of other countries in which we could make a massive job market out of it.

basically, we need the manufacturing jobs.
but at the same time, it would be great to see holden actually start to design and build more stuff/cars here people want.
 

Reaper

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now if only holden changes to meet the needs of what people want.

Such as?

Commodore: Leader in it's class, outselling it's nearest competitor by over 2:1.
Cruze: Usually in the top 3 of it's class.

Both cars in the middle of the top 10 sellers in Australia.

if they do want to retain the commodore name, keep it on a commodore-ish car, don't completely rebuild it as something people don't know it as. retire the name.

without a manufacturing industry we move to a service industry, the only issue I see with that is, how much of a service industry can we possibly have?

All manufacturing and feeder jobs will go in the Auto industry. Simple as that. The service and parts distribution is already established and will carry on with possibly marginally higher demand but the extra jobs there would be only a few.

now obviously there will always be the manufacturing industry in Australia, but if there isn't enough, what happens?

we really do need to stop always importing everything from overseas and focus on what we can build in Australia, even if it costs that extra little bit, just to keep everyone in a job. if you remove that bottom level of work, a lot of people will loose out.

To a large extent Australian manufacturing's fate is in the hands of the consumer. Most will agree with the above but when the chips are down and they can save a $ they go with the cheaper item. When Holden were running the higher quality Astra and Barina out of Europe, they were acknowledged as the best in class. They didn't sell as consumers flocked to the bottom end Korean rubbish which sold in boat loads. Holden have responded and although Korean quality is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was 10 years ago, much of it is still crap.

but at the same time, it would be great to see holden actually start to design and build more stuff/cars here people want.

Once again, such as?

Another thing most miss is how fragmented our market is. Australia is the most competitive car market in the world with more models competing for a market roughly the size of California.

The reason the auto industry in Australia is heading the way it is, is clearly shown by what you just posted. You purchased a vehicle that met your needs, which wasn't Australian made or designed.
I would love to see Holden stick around manufacturing here, but eventually you have to reach a point where enough is enough and it's just not viable.

Pffft - The only thing close to a Captiva in the top 10 is a CX-5. It sold 1900 units in August (new model mind you). The Captiva . Holden Cruze delivered 2350 and the Commodore was 2800 (not quite full production though and doesn't include 530 utes). So you are saying they should drop one of those cars for something that sells substantially less??? Now that would be stupid!
 

Drawnnite

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what I meant reap was.
instead of just selling what is already good, as you have stated cruze and commo are going not badly, have a look at what else they are selling, and or what they would like to break into the market for.

people want cheaper to run and smaller cars, im sure holden could build some of those here.

but its not just Holden, think of all the other companies.
Toyota and the Hilux, just imagine if they could build that here.
there would be a fair few jobs made just in that alone.

the corolla aswell could be added to that list.

now I do know that in order to do so, they need to make all the new presses and the likes, so doubtful it could be the current model.
but future models. have an incentive to make them here, and they probably would build them here.

Im not saying your wrong reap or hinting at it, I do believe you talk a lot of truth with it.
I just find it strange they could do soo much over here, yet choose to do very little.
guess at the end of the day if its public listed (assuming GM/Holden is on the stock market?) then its about the bottom dollar. ive been in a situation where that's nearly cost a lot of people including myself big time.
 
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Calaber

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The reason the auto industry in Australia is heading the way it is, is clearly shown by what you just posted. You purchased a vehicle that met your needs, which wasn't Australian made or designed.
I would love to see Holden stick around manufacturing here, but eventually you have to reach a point where enough is enough and it's just not viable.

I agree completely with your first sentence. I've said the same thing a number of times on numerous threads in this forum. It's a damned shame that our locals couldn't read the market better and design the types of cars we want these days. Ford did with the Territory and for the first few years, it sold well. It still looks contemporary but other manufacturers have overtaken the Terra for various reasons. The lack of a diesel from the start was a stumbling block as the car aged and it probably arrived too late.

Holden at least had a fair bit of input into the development of the Captiva but it was still underdone. Unfortunately, for reasons best know to themselves, GM seems to be content to allow GM-Daewoo to develop the majority of their export vehicle range and the vehicles are generally sub-standard as a result. The Cruze is another good example of how poorly Daewoo designs cars. The first series were bloody awful and it is only now, after Holden spent a lot of time and money developing the car, that it is a front-runner in its class. I haven't driven a Series II Captiva but I'll bet they leave my Series I for dead. Holden input again.

To return to the main subject of this thread, Holden at least is doing its damndest to remain a viable manufacturer in Australia, even though some of their processes are a bit draconian, such as salary cuts and freeze. Ford have just said "Stuff it" and decided to become bulk importers from 2016. For that reason, I wouldn't offer Ford one fig of public money between now and then, but Holden deserves whatever assistance is reasonable if there is a likelihood of them remaining a major player in our market and continuing to build cars here.
 

davey g-force

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Out of interest Calaber, in what way(s) did the Captiva meet your needs better than a Commodore sportswagon? (genuine question)
 

Calaber

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Out of interest Calaber, in what way(s) did the Captiva meet your needs better than a Commodore sportswagon? (genuine question)

Really easy to answer and happy to admit that age makes my (our) selection pretty obvious. I'm 61 and the other half is 58. We care for our 20 month old granddaughter five days a week and our 7 year old for part of each working day. The little one needs to be placed in a child restraint and we found that bending down to lift a bub into the seat, then strap her in properly in the sedan was damned difficult. The boot, whilst adequate, was buggered once the stroller was placed in it. In addition, we both found the low-slung sedan was difficult to enter and exit.

A Sportwagon would only have solved the stroller issue. My daughter has one and we find it is still far too low-slung to enter and exit comfortably (we both have buggered backs). The Sportwagon is very comfy and far more pleasant to drive than the Captiva but it's just too low slung for us old buggers.
 

minux

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If Holden and subsequently Toyota close up shop, that's 40,000 jobs gone. That's $400 million worth of dole payments (assuming the workers cannot find another job, which in a gutted manufacturing sector would be highly likely), added with the other job losses that would occur from the ripple effect. Real estate values would plummet. Parts of Melbourne and Adelaide would become like Detroit. Shutting up local car industry would be economically catastrophic.

There are other sectors that get a leg-up. In times of drought, farmers often get assistance. Mining companies get rebates on fuel taxes (I think...). Zoos are basically economically not viable and are often funded as education facilities.

Just an FYI, you mention "gutted manufacturing". You realise in Victoria over the past 7 years manufacturing has increased 60%? It is just the car industry flailing as neither Ford or Holden can build a car most of the population want. Christ we still cant get a diesel falcon or commodore for crying out loud.
 

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Just an FYI, you mention "gutted manufacturing". You realise in Victoria over the past 7 years manufacturing has increased 60%? It is just the car industry flailing as neither Ford or Holden can build a car most of the population want. Christ we still cant get a diesel falcon or commodore for crying out loud.

not being a smart arse here, actually curious.
do you have a link or any other info regarding that 60% rise in manufacturing?
 

Reaper

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Just an FYI, you mention "gutted manufacturing". You realise in Victoria over the past 7 years manufacturing has increased 60%? It is just the car industry flailing as neither Ford or Holden can build a car most of the population want. Christ we still cant get a diesel falcon or commodore for crying out loud.

As I posted above - Holden build 2 cars in the top -10 and one of them held the #1 spot for near 20 years until the year before last. Not sure how much popular you would like them to be?? Short of building an all in 1 BOF pickup capable of carrying 1 ton that is roughly the size of a Mazda 3 and can seat 7 all in 1 vehicle I don't see how anybody can "build a car most of the population want" as Australia is one of the most diverse fragmented markets in the world compounded with a very small volume. As for diesel Falcon/Commodore - not going to happen.
 
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