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28 days until TUNE (advice on E85 and supporting mods please)

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Mack78

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mega face palm! you have seemed more concerned about the gains then the engine light the whole time. hard to wanna help someone when all they want to go on about is the gains compared to elsewhere that you so religiously researched to end up going to one suggested to by someone who hasn't even admitted they have personally used.
 

PIR4TE

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Yeah a bloke from Queensland recommended them and he went there based on that by the sounds of it.

Pirate you ever been there before?
Haha, goan nibble your left nut mate!!

Nah like I said, never had my car done by a Melbourne tuner (can't trust 'em)! But just like you said, I noted APS has a good track record in e85, AirStrike said didn't factor a reckoning with his turbo mates though, but simply put this is a stuff up, dude has right to be pissed and post facts, but #### me we are no jury, the shop needs right of reply IMO.

Actually I mentioned on CB words to the effect that this guy was getting a raw deal before he went in, and factor in Nate's story... It does add up to OP simply having a civil word with the owner about expectations, agreed.
 

Mack78

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the shop needs to rectify the engine light issue the OP need to understand that bolt ons only get bolt on gains
 

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the shop needs to rectify the engine light issue the OP need to understand that bolt ons only get bolt on gains
Yep, but sorta sold up the river with 4-1 + cats like pic, however OP got exactly as specified. In the detail OP's right about collector, right about expecting more by getting special CAI and e85 tune, right about return on investment is poor. With proper length collector and moving cats back, sacrificing a bit of original catback and a couple of welded flanges I reckon you should expect a tune near what is shown on dyno. Remember that dyno figure is arbitrary, not kosher, and as Grennan said at best is likely only producing some power up top, no doubt exacerbates by the way it's been set up.
Bottom line is you can't get max torque and hp 4-1 bolted up to std catback in factory position, has to include some collector.
 

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I understand what you are saying but the OP seems focused on dyno gains and sounds like the tuner did all he could to get that magic higher number up the rev range. seems to be all he is focused on and I get the impression the tuner would of been feeling the same as me after listening to him go on and on and on about what everyone is getting. for someone who claims to of done a heap of research it sounds like he done none at all.
 

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Yep, but sorta sold up the river with 4-1 + cats like pic, however OP got exactly as specified. In the detail OP's right about collector, right about expecting more by getting special CAI and e85 tune, right about return on investment is poor. With proper length collector and moving cats back, sacrificing a bit of original catback and a couple of welded flanges I reckon you should expect a tune near what is shown on dyno. Remember that dyno figure is arbitrary, not kosher, and as Grennan said at best is likely only producing some power up top, no doubt exacerbates by the way it's been set up.
Bottom line is you can't get max torque and hp 4-1 bolted up to std catback in factory position, has to include some collector.
But you shouldnt really expect more from a special CAI. I mean, they can sell you on it all they like, but end of the day the difference between lets say a VCM and a ORRSM is a bees dick and is not measurable by anyone in the car. I got my VCM intake not because people say its the best, but because I felt it looked the neatest in the engine bay. I couldve gone for any number of different OTRs for less and got the same result. Im fairly sure APS is doing the Carbon Fibre VCM ones now, they cost a premium. Would you expect it to perform better than the standard? I wouldnt because I know it just looks pretty. But would average joe know that? Probably not and I think thats whats happened here. Theyre pushing a product, it may not be inferior in anyway but the way theyve sold it its appeared better than it is.

Ill be honest, yes the number does look poor. Being on E85 you would expect a little more. But we have to remember hes slapped a second hand HSV exhaust on and some oversized headers. I wouldnt be expecting the world. Couple that with a very conservative dyno and that explains your numbers. I would be shocked if he didnt get 260-265 on another dyno with a better exhaust.

As far as driving it goes, well we can only go by what he has said. Mine was certainly punchier all throughout the rev range but I did notice it a lot higher up. I noticed the auto was much sharper as well as the blip on downshift in sports mode. Now if he has an issue with how it drives, they need to be addressed with the tuner, its that simple. I personally got into my car after it was tuned and went huh is that it? Becuase when i did my LS1 the car was a complete animal off the line. But, different exhaust set up. But when I felt the car making power where it was tuned to, it was wow.

What I am afraid will happen is, old mate will walk in and will mention dyno figures and other workshops packages and APS will roll their eyes. What OP needs to do is walk in nice and calmly and say ok the engine light is on, fix that. Also, I have some concerns with the auto, its to harsh, can we have a seperate profile for normal driving and sport. Then it doesnt have the same pickup off the line as I was expecting, can we adjust anything? Walking in waving around a dyno sheet is a quick way for them to just strap the car loose and just do whatever will shut you the #### up, without actually fixing any issues.
 

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But you shouldnt really expect more from a special CAI. I mean, they can sell you on it all they like, but end of the day the difference between lets say a VCM and a ORRSM is a bees dick and is not measurable by anyone in the car. I got my VCM intake not because people say its the best, but because I felt it looked the neatest in the engine bay. I couldve gone for any number of different OTRs for less and got the same result. Im fairly sure APS is doing the Carbon Fibre VCM ones now, they cost a premium. Would you expect it to perform better than the standard? I wouldnt because I know it just looks pretty. But would average joe know that? Probably not and I think thats whats happened here. Theyre pushing a product, it may not be inferior in anyway but the way theyve sold it its appeared better than it is.

Ill be honest, yes the number does look poor. Being on E85 you would expect a little more. But we have to remember hes slapped a second hand HSV exhaust on and some oversized headers. I wouldnt be expecting the world. Couple that with a very conservative dyno and that explains your numbers. I would be shocked if he didnt get 260-265 on another dyno with a better exhaust.

As far as driving it goes, well we can only go by what he has said. Mine was certainly punchier all throughout the rev range but I did notice it a lot higher up. I noticed the auto was much sharper as well as the blip on downshift in sports mode. Now if he has an issue with how it drives, they need to be addressed with the tuner, its that simple. I personally got into my car after it was tuned and went huh is that it? Becuase when i did my LS1 the car was a complete animal off the line. But, different exhaust set up. But when I felt the car making power where it was tuned to, it was wow.

What I am afraid will happen is, old mate will walk in and will mention dyno figures and other workshops packages and APS will roll their eyes. What OP needs to do is walk in nice and calmly and say ok the engine light is on, fix that. Also, I have some concerns with the auto, its to harsh, can we have a seperate profile for normal driving and sport. Then it doesnt have the same pickup off the line as I was expecting, can we adjust anything? Walking in waving around a dyno sheet is a quick way for them to just strap the car loose and just do whatever will shut you the #### up, without actually fixing any issues.
The Tuner will not be back until wednesday, I am taking the car to a local tuner to read the codes on friday. why are 1 and 3/4 headers oversized?
 

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The Tuner will not be back until wednesday, I am taking the car to a local tuner to read the codes on friday. why are 1 and 3/4 headers oversized?
1 3/4 arent as bad as 1 7/8. But 4 into 1s typically shift the power range of the car to the higher RPM range.
 

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The other cars I drove were both 4-1 di filippo, 1 3/4 on the walkinshaw and 1 7/8 on gm motorsport and to the butt dyno the gm felt slighty torquier everywhere, you could probably attribute this to the ramjet as well as the 8kw higher dyno figure
 

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Grennan

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The other cars I drove were both 4-1 di filippo, 1 3/4 on the walkinshaw and 1 7/8 on gm motorsport and to the butt dyno the gm felt slighty torquier everywhere, you could probably attribute this to the ramjet as well as the 8kw higher dyno figure
Yeah I dunno that throws up all sorts of weird questions to me. 1 7/8 feels torquier. The intake isnt going to make a huge difference. As I said, the difference would be so miniscule anything you noticed would be placebo.
 

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Grennan

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That stoopid video keeps coming up like every couple of months, a load of crap.
Not only that but lets say there is a 5kw difference.

That is ABSOLUTELY nothing. There would be more of a difference between a 8 degree morning and a 30 degree day.
 

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Yeah I dunno that throws up all sorts of weird questions to me. 1 7/8 feels torquier. The intake isnt going to make a huge difference. As I said, the difference would be so miniscule anything you noticed would be placebo.
Exactly. The 1 3/4 are 'torquier', 1 7/8 sounds like it is. Is like bi-modal exhausts, opening up to straight through sounds like you've unleashed the hounds, but under 3000 RPM you are actually losing torque with it being open and loud.
 

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Exactly. The 1 3/4 are 'torquier', 1 7/8 sounds like it is. Is like bi-modal exhausts, opening up to straight through sounds like you've unleashed the hounds, but under 3000 RPM you are actually losing torque with it being open and loud.
Guys I'm not starting another 1 7/8's verse 1 3/4 debate, I am just saying the gm motorsport felt torquier. besides the ramjet it is a mafless tune and (I also noticed a micro second of hesitation on first touch of the throttle and not as smooth as the walkinshaw) whilst both cars catbacks are di filippo the walkinshaw has resonators that are approx 30% larger in diameter and twice as long, and a step down from 3 inch to 2.5 just before the diff.
 

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Guys I'm not starting another 1 7/8's verse 1 3/4 debate, I am just saying the gm motorsport felt torquier. besides the ramjet it is a mafless tune and (I also noticed a micro second of hesitation on first touch of the throttle and not as smooth as the walkinshaw) whilst both cars catbacks are di filippo the walkinshaw has resonators that are approx 30% larger in diameter and twice as long, and a step down from 3 inch to 2.5 just before the diff.
Mafless tune has absolutely no bearing on anything.
 

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Mafless tune has absolutely no bearing on anything.
I am merely pointing out the differences between the two I forgot to add the walkinshaw headers are hpc coated

and bear in mind I drove both these cars before the motor magazine came out.

the walkinshaw did a 13.8 400m and a 5.8 0-100 with 275 section street rubber

the gm motorsport a 13.3 400m and a 5.1 0-100 with 235 section semi slick yokohamas with traction issues.
 
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