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28 days until TUNE (advice on E85 and supporting mods please)

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by dsuth77, Sep 1, 2014.

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  1. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    MAYBE THE DRAGSTRIP WAS READING HIGH

    the point is that this is an independant comparison that was conducted on the same day, same driver, same strip (a controlled test)
    and proves that I can feel the difference between cars.

    FYI a cammed clubsport making 324.6kw did a 13.2 400m and a 5.2 0-100

    why don't you spend some time researching instead of trying to shoot me down in flames and failing miserably.
     
  2. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    You're the one telling me to do research?

    This is a ####ing joke right?

    Stock VF will do the quarter in 13.6ish.

    If you are saying a 324rwkw car did it in 13.2 (and the magical gmm car did it in13.3 with semis) I am calling bullshit on whatever dyno readings they've pulled out their arse.

    Now before you start throwing around the do your research line. Maybe you should do some yourself so you wouldn't come across as the typical dyno sheet waving idiot that you appear to be.
     
  3. AirStrike

    AirStrike Administrator Staff Member

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    What was the MPH and I'll work out the actual power of the car.
     
  4. arronm

    arronm Active Member

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    Being a turbo Ford guy, I find this all quite amusing. Arguments over a few kilowatts. and 13.2 quarters, do you guys pack a lunch for that.....

    That said, I love driving my new VF redline and am in the process of a few mods. I like the torque of the V8 and the exhaust note is nice.

    Interior and features shti all over the Ford.
     
    VE_CalaisV8 likes this.
  5. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    Like I said do some ( indepth current multiple source ) research and know what your talking about. If you know your stuff why are you comparing VE results with VF when should immediately realise that the electric steering in a VF results in less drivetrain loss ( between 5-10kw at the rears ) not to mention the latest more powerful ECM AND TUNE

    this is a CONTROLLED test. Do I have to explain to you the many variables from dragstrip to dragstrip, driver to driver, temp, traction, especially in these manual cars, which if you didn't know are slower than auto 13.6 you are quoting.

    case in point At the dragstrip: Commodore v Falcon
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2014
  6. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    gm motorsport = 178.92 km/h

    walkinshaw =173.54 km/h

    clubsport =185.3 km/h
     
  7. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    same reasoning for my purchase
     
  8. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    You're telling me now I can't compare the two because one is a ve?

    You brought the times up not me.

    Again who are you trying to convince here?

    It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself you've been ripped.


    I've tried to be helpful. I've posted how you should approach this. But you aren't willing to take any advice other than APS is rubbish.

    I wish you good luck with your trip on Wednesday but I predict you getting laughed at in the tea room at lunch time followed by a loose strap special.
     
  9. AirStrike

    AirStrike Administrator Staff Member

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    All flywheel hp. Factory is about 365hp.

    Side note, who the hell works out quarter mile times in km/h :s
     
  10. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Firstly about power distribution from the GenIV accessory drive:

    Tensioner: ~0 kW
    AC: 4kW (5hp)
    Alternator: 5-6kW (7-8hp)
    Water Pump: 10kW (13hp)
    Power Steering: 2-4kW (3-5hp)
    Bear in mind that all these values are approximate to start with and they are for max draw, an AC will draw close to nothing when it's not active, as will an alternator. Traditional water pumps will draw more power the faster they are spinning (so the higher the engine is revving). Power Steering pumps only draw max power when being fully utilised.
    So to back a claim that the VE v VF travelling in a straight line one is more powerful because it has an electric motor to assist steering is daft.

    Pray tell what is the VF 6.0's new ECU? And in what way is the tune any different to Series II VE?

    Power is exactly the same as VE Series II (L77), which as stock is same in manual or auto.
     
  11. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    thats right its the like trying to compare an auto with a manual.
     
  12. Mack78

    Mack78 New Member

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    I have a suggestion, Lets all leave this jack ass be and let him frame his next dyno sheet after APS get sick of listening to him scramble for the rwkw he is after. oh and if he had done all this research wouldn't he of know the difference 4 to1`s and diameters would make ??
     
  13. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    Actually my 13.6 is an automatic time.

    Or if you would like to believe this video

    At the dragstrip: Commodore v Falcon

    Its a 13.1 (automatic). Now if you look at the VE, they are very similar times standard.

    So you can pick whatever time/car combo ive thrown up. Either way, those times you posted up do not correspond with the claimed output of the cars.

    As Strike says, MPH is MPH and it doesnt lie. So you can bang on about how GMM or whomever has the better package and youre butthurt because your figure isnt as high. But the MPH proves, their figures are about as good as toilet paper.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  14. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    whilst a hydraulic power steering setup is not seeing max load until you are turning the steering wheel it is still turning a fixed displacement hydraulic pump which inturn is pumping the fluid around the circuit, this is enough of a loss for the car manufacturers to negate with electric power steering amongst other measures for improved fuel efficiency .
    The gmmedia site has an indepth vf commodore development article I can only find bits and pieces of at the moment, it seems the whole article has been taken down but here is an article on holdens take VF COMMODORE: Steering a new path - motoring.com.au

    I'm wrong about the ECU (As above I can't find the whole article) i was confusing it with the new bosch 9.0 ESP unit.

    The VF has had tweaks to the engine and auto ecu VF COMMODORE: Power games - motoring.com.au
     
  15. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    No, not in a straight line, power is less than 0.5% engine output - negligible.

    Don't believe anything motoring journalists say, speak the engineers and motor builders and top tuners. Also perhaps take advice from people who really know this engine back to front and are pushing GM blueprints to the limit such as on forums like this.

    Stability Control, not ECU.

    Not the L77, no.

    Anyway mate, like most of participating in this thread, just thought you wanted some input and knowledge, guess we were all wrong, good luck with your car.
     
  16. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    Speak to Dale Patterson Motorsport 03 9338 6492


    PIR4TE I respect your INPUT and KNOWLEDGE thats delivered in a civil manner, thats why I took your advice. But I don't take kindly to the unnecessary abuse of other participants, thanks for your time

    I'll post an update of how it goes with the tuner
     
  17. dsuth77

    dsuth77 Member

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    Info from this forum page 4 http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/vf/223671-vf-ssv-redline-ute-4.html

    Hey guys and gals,

    It's been a little while since I last updated this thread and I have some nice updates on the ute!

    1 7/8" HM Headers Extractors
    200cell Outlaw Cats
    3" HM Headers Catback
    VCM OTR
    Tuned by BTA Motorsports - 287.2rwkw on E85

    https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta/photos/pcb.823378921047957/823378847714631/?type=1&theater

    https://www.facebook.com/enhanced.by.bta?hc_location=timeline
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  18. Mack78

    Mack78 New Member

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    stop worrying about dyno numbers.
     
  19. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    It is possible without changing valve events, just not probable. Several tuners set the high water mark with loads of timing on e85 at 285rwkw BTW, just not probable as intake chokes intake at 5300 due to lack of lift. That's not something you can magically circumvent with a few modified cells on a dyno table or should you accept as a statement of fact in a magazine or on a website, you need to spend real time with the car and a laptop with a tuning strategy based on experience to leverage about 230 actual CFM.
    The example in your link is just not possible on unopened GenIV 6.0 under ~6000 RPM. To get 285rwkw @ 5000 RPM the engine is 130% VE... but with air cleaner and branded exhaust that's some powerful magic! Home of the $10,000 titanium catback and pommy style staged enhancement levels for rich dummies. This is obvious a mistake, it smells like Stage Four BS.
    Understand that the only physical (mechanical) restriction for an L77 to reliably crack 300rwkw is valve events, not which brand of component. Specifically if you put an LS2 or LS3 camshaft in it will do the trick with simple (inexpensive) bolt-ons, otherwise to retain AFM and the option of VVT you increase lift at valve via rockers to get same lift and duration. Like I did.
    You don't need an OTR, you don't need aftermarket headers or brand name catback to get 300+atw.
    Also as a postscript you don't need 300rwkw to go sub 5 seconds 0-100k in our car either.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
  20. Grennan

    Grennan Slayer of Stupid Threads

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    Yeah, so the difference here is:

    Exhaust, OTR and Dyno.

    You say you came here for knowledge and input. But you blatantly ignore any advice or knowledge because it doesnt tell you what you want to hear. Time and time again you post this nonsense about what other cars with different tuners and dynos are making.

    You just dont seem to get it do you?

    DYNOS MEAN NOTHING.

    That sounds like the happiest dyno in dyno land.

    In the beginning we tried being nice to you and explaining to you what could have caused this but youve just heard "APS IS BAD" and run a ####ing mile pulling dyno figures out of your arse.

    Pull your head in.
     
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