3.6L LLT SIDI Just finished changing chains.. A bit confused HELP!

[Aymen Pedram]

Car - 2009 Holden VE Ute
Engine - 3.6L SIDI (LLT)
Timing Kit - Cloyes Brand

Kept throwing codes for exhaust side cam fast forward to now, i've replaced the timing chains and idler gears (NOT THE CAM GEARS) Everything goes on nicely, all marks line up not rocket science.

Problem is.. When im all done and i've pulled all the tensioner pins i crank the engine a couple of times by hand and after a few turns i have a look and all the timing marks are no longer aligned??? Is this due to the different ratio's on the idler / cam / crank gears and is it normal or am i just freaking out. i've given it a good 10 turns over and the valves never seem to come in contact with the pistons but i'm just trying to be extra careful. As i turn over the engine all three tensioners seem to pop into their non-tensioned position for a second and then pop back out putting pressure on the chain. Keep in mind i've never actually seen the chain jump a tooth just somehow ends up out of time (and so i think).

Thank you in advance

 

[Sabbath']

Which part doesnt line up, the timing marks themselves or the painted links on the chain?

 

[Aymen Pedram]

Which part doesnt line up, the timing marks themselves or the painted links on the chain?

Well both, nothing at all lines up they all change out of time after i turn the engine over clockwise

 

[Fu Manchu]

Could it be something to do with the cam solenoids?

 

[redvxr8clubby]

I haven't done timing chains on a Commodore, a few years ago I did timing belt on a 2008 Forester. I recall similar thing in that once turned the marks never lined up again. I put it down to the differing size of the cogs that makes it initially seem like its all gone astray. Had the Forester for over 3 years since doing the belt and it's still OK. Hopefully someone who's done a V6 can confirm similar for you and put your mind at ease

Edit. Since Skylarking's post, I realise I should have stated better in this post. In the case of the Forester, the replacement belt had marks on the belt and these need to align with the pulley positions and markings when installing, As you turn the engine over it is the marks on the belt that I'm referring to that don't align with pulley markings on subsequent engine turning. As Skylarking rightly says of course camshaft/ crankshaft relative positions will be the same when engine is turned over twice. If your looking at chain markings relative to pulley/ sprocket markings these probably won't align on subsequent engine rotations. Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[Fu Manchu]

*deleted*

 

[Skylarking]

@Aymen Pedram I haven’t done chains or belts in a long time but all follow a specific logic which is common across 4’s 6’s and 8’s.

Normally one start the chain/belt change process with #1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke. And I always take plugs out to make it easy to turn the engine over by hand and disconnect the battery to stop myself doing something silly (yeah don’t ask).

In that #1 piston @ TDC on compression stroke, all chain/belt/cog marks should line up as specified in the service manual.

Then if you turn the motor, and keep turning it through two complete revolutions, #1 piston should again be TDC on compression stroke and the marks should again line up. And bits shouldn’t go click, pop or do odd things while you are rotating. Marks should periodically line up every two revolutions. Only ever turn the engine over in its running direction (clock wise when looking from the front of the engine towards the back of the engine).

Basically, you know, it’s a four stroke which goes suck & squish in one rotation and then bang & fart in the next rotation - four strokes every two revolutions. Valves must follow the induction phase of the pistons so marks must periodically line up or something is seriously wrong.

If this is not happening for you and your marks never line up, you have a problem. Since you’ve already turned the engine 10 times, your valves may have hit the pistons (as most modern engines are an interference design not sure about the LLT).

Rotate #1 piston towards TDC and check both intake and exhaust valves for this piston as you turn. Both will shut on the compression stroke. Stop at TDC and check your chain/cog marks.

If not lined up, scratch your head, have a think and fix it. Then again rotate two revolutions and things must line up else the world is really flat and we never made it to the moon

Hopefully your valves haven’t been bent but I’d check compression when engine is finally running. Hopefully all is ok and you don’t drop a valve some time down the track.

Here's a video that references stage 1 timing (but doesn't elaborate what it is) so may seem a little different to what i've said above but it should not really be. Haven't found anything better but you may find the video helpful.

 

[mantaray56]

After original line up of the timing marks may, it take 20 or 30 or more revolutions for them to line up again, if they were set properly and no grinding or clicking then you are sweet. Also if aligning to second timing mark . they will already not all line up.