304, no spark problem

[chance23]

Ok, post for my brother who isn’t on here. He’s recently picked up a VR Ute with an injected 304 strokes to 355. It’s running a standard dizzy, upgraded fuel pump, Haltech platinum and a few other bits. It’s also a 5 speed manual.
Bought it and drove it. Filled it up and then it would crank, but not fire. Off to the local shop.
They said his module was fried and replaced it. Started and drove off.
Next drive and he’s cruising, it loses power and dies. Won’t start. Tow truck back to the shop. They have it for two weeks, replace the dizzy and a cracked coil and insert a diode as they think the module is getting fried again. Essentially, they didn’t know, but it started and drove home. Next drive, same thing. Dies in power and then dies. Tows it home and while getting off the truck, it starts.
I’m thinking fuel as there’s apparently a strong fuel smell.
Change out the fuel reg and check all injectors and everything is fine. No leaks under pressure.
Thinking the PCU module is the issue, he orders an after market one with a much higher amp rating. Get it, puts it in and same thing. Won’t start. Cranks, but no spark.
He has power to coil, to module, to dizzy, but no spark.
I’ve asked him to check the above have power while cranking. Thinking it’s a wiring issue from either the ignition switch (he did originally move the steering column as he’s a runny bastard), or the starter to the ignition switch. He hasn’t gotten back to me on that. We live in different states.
Anyone have any ideas?
Cheers,

 

[Deuce]

What voltage at the battery while cranking?

 

[chance23]

Not sure, but I knows he’s checked the battery and it’s good. Cranks hard and consistent, just no spark.

 

[The_Captain_1971]

Have you checked for errors?

Sounds like the Dizzy?Same thing happened to me recently. Check for error codes

 

[BlackVXGTS]

Has your brother pulled any of the spark plugs to see if they are wet (over-fueled)?

You could also have a Theft Deterrent Problem (excerpt from the Holden VR Service Manual included below). Take note the underlined sentence in the Operation section below. Don't be confused by the references to "High Series BCM". The Low Series BCM used on the Utility operates in the same way.

1.1 THEFT DETERRENT SYSTEM GENERAL INFORMATION
Armed
Once the theft deterrent system is enabled, it can be manually armed in one of two ways:
Actively, by pressing the button on the remote coded key (DOORS button on two button remote coded key) or,
Passively, as the High Series BCM will automatically arm 30 seconds after the ignition is turned off.
When the system is armed, the start relay (located in the engine compartment relay housing) and the engine management system ECM/PCM are disabled, preventing the engine from being started.

Disarmed
With the system disarmed, the start relay and the engine management ECM/PCM are enabled, allowing the engine to be started when the ignition switch is turned to the run position.
The theft deterrent system can be disarmed by:
Pressing the doors button on the remote coded key. This unlocks the doors, turns the interior dome lamp ON and disarms the system for 30 seconds or, until the remote coded key is inserted into the ignition switch key barrel and turned to the on or run position. This causes the High Series BCM to read a security code serial data output from the remote coded key contact pin via the remote coded key reader assembly.

The system can also be disarmed by turning the ignition switch to the ON position for approximately 45 minutes.

NOTE: Should the engine not crank when the ignition switch is turned to the START position (ie due to misaligned or a faulty remote coded key reader) then pressing the button on the remote coded key (DOORS button on two button remote coded key) will also disarm the theft deterrent system.

Theft Deterrent Alert Indicator LED
The theft deterrent alert indicator LED is used to indicate the state of the system. A flashing LED indicates that the system is armed and consequently the vehicle cannot be started. When the LED is turned off, the High Series BCM is disarmed and the engine can be started.

For vehicles with Electronic Climate Control (ECC), the theft deterrent alert indicator LED is located in the instrument facia, below the centre air outlets. If the vehicle is fitted with manual type air conditioning, the theft deterrent alert indicator LED is in the dash panel centre facia escutcheon, below the radio/cassette player.

Operation
When the ignition switch is turned to the on position, the engine management ECM/PCM will request from the High Series BCM permission to start. If the High Series BCM has received the correct security code from the remote coded key, the it will respond by enabling the start relay and giving the ECM/PCM permission to start (this allows the ECM/PCM to enable fuel system control).
If the correct security code is not detected by the High Series BCM within two seconds of the ignition being turned on, the High Series BCM will then monitor for Radio Frequency (RF) signal output from the remote coded key doors button. If the High Series BCM receives the correct RF signal output from the remote coded key, it will then enable the start relay and give the engine management ECM/PCM permission to start. This feature allows engine starting should there be a malfunction with the remote coded key reader assembly.

Should the High Series BCM not receive any communication from the engine management ECM/PCM with the ignition switched on, the High Series BCM will enable the start relay after one second delay. The engine will crank, but will not start as the engine management ECM/PCM has not enabled fuel system control (no fuel is injected).

NOTE: It is very important that the remote coded key reader is aligned correctly with the ignition lock assembly, or misalignment with the remote coded key contact may occur resulting in intermittent or no engine cranking or starting.

 

[The_Captain_1971]

What about the fuel pump?

I once got petrol and the car wouldn’t start.

Checked all the normal things; and needed to call a towie.

Got it home and rolled it off. It started straight away; most expensive petrol fill i’d done in a while.

Couldn’t work out why?

I then thought all that bouncing around (not too much bouncing!) may have assisted the fuel pump in some way.

It happened again. Got fuel and then it wouldn’t start. So I got under the car and physically “hit” the underbody approx where the fuel pump is. Boom...it started!

Drove it home and replaced the fuel pump. Been fine since....

Although; since then I’ve replaced the dizzy (and relocated....pics to come) now that’s a pain in the backside

 

[chance23]

Have you checked for errors?

Sounds like the Dizzy?Same thing happened to me recently. Check for error codes

He hasn’t checked the codes yet. He doesn’t have a reader and no near by supercheap to get it done.

My thoughts are the dizzy/Hall effects sensor. I don’t think the shop actually replaced anything.

I’ve told him the check the ignition switch (and therefor the alignment) as I’ve had a similar issue in the past with a be commodore I have.

He says the fuel pump is working. He can hear it and there’s fuel at the rails.

He’s checked the plugs and there’s no spark on cranking (they’re not soaked, but they’d be a bit wet due to cranking and no spark).

Unfortunately he has to work the weekend, so hasn’t had a chance to do some testing.

 

[woteva]

No code reader required as they can be checked with a paper clip or piece of stiff wire.

https://forums.justcommodores.com.au/threads/checking-error-codes-vr-vs-revised.22307/

 

[chance23]

Ok, for anyone still following.
Brother took it to a local auto electrician that got recommended.
Turns out, the previous mechanic who took two weeks to fix it, stuff up the main harness. Once all the tape was cut away, there were cut wires and poorly spliced once all over the shop. We don’t even know how he managed to start it.
Took the new guy half a day and it’s running beautifully.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[losh1971]

Thanks for letting us know what the problem was. Quite often questions like this get asked and we never find out the outcome.