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6L80E and 6L90E into Holden CrossTrac system

Fu Manchu

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CWG

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This is very interesting, the Overline GM Command unit I just bought, for $600, is option 4 and the video output I have is identical to the one pictured. When my son put the LS3 with 6L80, out of a 2014 VF, into his 105 series Landcruiser he ended up ditching the BCM and using this Overline controller, he is still just running the factory O/S in the transmission. It works extremely well in his cruiser, so when I could not get the the TCM2650 to do what I wanted, I decided to buy the Overline. I was able to get the engine rpm and transmission temp to read, but the tap shift still eluded me and the guy who sells the Overline unit is less than helpful. But, the car is currently off with my tuner guy getting fine tuned and a couple off days ago he rang to say that he was going to change the base O/S in the transmission from 2007 commodore to a 2009 commodore, that's the latest software can use, as the new 2007 hydraulic control module I put in complete with T43 A6 control unit will not accept later software. If only I knew 6 months ago what I know now, I would have made sure the 6L80E was out off a VF, anyway that's why its called R&D. I digress where was I up to, so when he put the 2009 tune in, the transmission was changing from normal to pattern A, when he selected manual mode, but it was not a stable signal. Que my mechatronics engineers, "hey boss does it have both the 120 ohm CAN end line resistors fitted" I probably should have listened to the ensuing explanation off why the CAN circuit needs two resistors, but just nodded and wander off in search off resistors. As it turns out the TCM2650 has one programable resistor, which can be turned off for systems that already have two or can be turned on for systems which only have one, this is not referred to in any off Zero Gravity's instillation notes, its another one off those "ya just gotta know". Turns out the VE Commodore 6L80 has one resistor somewhere in the wiring harness after the steering angle sensor, don't have that, and one in the engine ECU, don't have that either, so it looks like I only have one off the required resistors, which may be making the CAN network unstable, so I am hopeful that by adding the second resistor across the can wires at the DTC, the Overline tap shift will become stable and work. If this fails Tapshift "plan D" is to simply run the 2009 corvette O/S in the transmission and go old school and just force feed the T43 A6 the correct resistance, this is accomplished by making a resistor pack with three different switches and putting the signal into pin 7 on the transmission plug, as per the attached, this is old mates option 3. From what I can make out the engineers in the USA did not catch onto the whole CAN BUS Tap shift until after we sent them the Commodore G8 in 2008, which I think is why the TCM2650 does not cater for the VE/VF shifter signals. I am guessing that the guy in Perth is the same guy I bought the Overline off, buys the Overline and remarkets it or the Unit is available in the USA and both these guy's use it. My young mechatronics engineer is keen, when/if I get it working to simple go read the CAN messages find out what the VE/VF output and make our own CAN converter, I might just let him out off morbid curiosity. More to come. Clive
 

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CWG

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This is very interesting, the Overline GM Command unit I just bought, for $600, is option 4 and the video output I have is identical to the one pictured. When my son put the LS3 with 6L80, out of a 2014 VF, into his 105 series Landcruiser he ended up ditching the BCM and using this Overline controller, he is still just running the factory O/S in the transmission. It works extremely well in his cruiser, so when I could not get the the TCM2650 to do what I wanted, I decided to buy the Overline. I was able to get the engine rpm and transmission temp to read, but the tap shift still eluded me and the guy who sells the Overline unit is less than helpful. But, the car is currently off with my tuner guy getting fine tuned and a couple off days ago he rang to say that he was going to change the base O/S in the transmission from 2007 commodore to a 2009 commodore, that's the latest software can use, as the new 2007 hydraulic control module I put in complete with T43 A6 control unit will not accept later software. If only I knew 6 months ago what I know now, I would have made sure the 6L80E was out off a VF, anyway that's why its called R&D. I digress where was I up to, so when he put the 2009 tune in, the transmission was changing from normal to pattern A, when he selected manual mode, but it was not a stable signal. Que my mechatronics engineers, "hey boss does it have both the 120 ohm CAN end line resistors fitted" I probably should have listened to the ensuing explanation off why the CAN circuit needs two resistors, but just nodded and wander off in search off resistors. As it turns out the TCM2650 has one programable resistor, which can be turned off for systems that already have two or can be turned on for systems which only have one, this is not referred to in any off Zero Gravity's instillation notes, its another one off those "ya just gotta know". Turns out the VE Commodore 6L80 has one resistor somewhere in the wiring harness after the steering angle sensor, don't have that, and one in the engine ECU, don't have that either, so it looks like I only have one off the required resistors, which may be making the CAN network unstable, so I am hopeful that by adding the second resistor across the can wires at the DTC, the Overline tap shift will become stable and work. If this fails Tapshift "plan D" is to simply run the 2009 corvette O/S in the transmission and go old school and just force feed the T43 A6 the correct resistance, this is accomplished by making a resistor pack with three different switches and putting the signal into pin 7 on the transmission plug, as per the attached, this is old mates option 3. From what I can make out the engineers in the USA did not catch onto the whole CAN BUS Tap shift until after we sent them the Commodore G8 in 2008, which I think is why the TCM2650 does not cater for the VE/VF shifter signals. I am guessing that the guy in Perth is the same guy I bought the Overline off, buys the Overline and remarkets it or the Unit is available in the USA and both these guy's use it. My young mechatronics engineer is keen, when/if I get it working to simple go read the CAN messages find out what the VE/VF output and make our own CAN converter, I might just let him out off morbid curiosity. More to come. Clive
Just for the record CAE Performance are also selling the "Overline Controller" I will find the OEM eventually. http://www.caeperformanceproducts.c...hdS9pbWFnZXMvZWZpL3RhcHNoaWZ0LTZsODAtOTAuanBn
 

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For those following along at home . Adding the second 120 ohm resistor has not made the the shift to sports mode stable, when I move the shifter from D to sport, the program is still bouncing, very rapidly from NORMAL mode to SPORTS mode and wont stabilize. However the shift to TUTD changed the transmission into MANUAL mode and appeared to be stable, that was new. Time for a small celebration, not quite, I could make one shift and it went into MANUAL mode and worked TUTD, but would not go into the mode a second time. The following day of trouble shooting was off track trying this and trying that, but the answer turned out to be a P1761 code which was not showing up on the HP tuners and does not have a name in the transmission DTC list. I eventually drove to work and got my trusty G scan, with which I could see and clear the fault. Sure enough went into manual mode once and then came right back on the second attempt, turns out both the TCM and the BCM keep a rolling tally off the amount off times manual mode is selected and if they don't agree they throw P1761 and put the transmission back into neutral. Solution use HP to turn the annoying code off, sports mode is still unstable, but manual mode is very stable and works every time. I might put another external resistor into the CAN BUS today and turn the one off in the TCM2650 to see if that stabilizes the sports mode shift, but at this point I am just trying stuff. This shift pattern to manual mode, if you disregard the unstable sports mode, is at least consistent with how late VE and VF operated. However going back to Auto/Normal mode is a bit odd, I need to place the shift lever in neutral then back into drive to cancel the manual mode. This is ok when you are stationary, but to do it when you are driving along requires some conscious though, so you don't over rev the engine or put it into reverse, never a good thing. Anyway I have achieved what I was looking for and that is I can now lock the transmission into first gear for those tricky off road situations. ;)
 
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Fu Manchu

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You love a challenge!
Would the same thing be happening if you got the SV6 paddle shift working to do the active select function?
 

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You love a challenge!
Would the same thing be happening if you got the SV6 paddle shift working to do the active select function?
Morning FU, Whilst I do like a challenge and quite often the chase is better than the outcome, this is starting to do my head in as I can not get enough reliable information on any off the components. I don't think the SV6 paddle shift would work any better, you would still need to convert the paddle signals to GM CAN and then hope that that the message got through. It may work if you bought a PCS paddle shifter, which by the look of it is a CAN converter, and the PCS TCM2650 seems to be programmed to communicate both with this paddle shifter and the 6L80 A6 controller. Clive
 

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For those following along at home . Adding the second 120 ohm resistor has not made the the shift to sports mode stable, when I move the shifter from D to sport, the program is still bouncing, very rapidly from NORMAL mode to SPORTS mode and wont stabilize. However the shift to TUTD changed the transmission into MANUAL mode and appeared to be stable, that was new. Time for a small celebration, not quite, I could make one shift and it went into MANUAL mode and worked TUTD, but would not go into the mode a second time. The following day of trouble shooting was off track trying this and trying that, but the answer turned out to be a P1761 code which was not showing up on the HP tuners and does not have a name in the transmission DTC list. I eventually drove to work and got my trusty G scan, with which I could see and clear the fault. Sure enough went into manual mode once and then came right back on the second attempt, turns out both the TCM and the BCM keep a rolling tally off the amount off times manual mode is selected and if they don't agree they throw P1761 and put the transmission back into neutral. Solution use HP to turn the annoying code off, sports mode is still unstable, but manual mode is very stable and works every time. I might put another external resistor into the CAN BUS today and turn the one off in the TCM2650 to see if that stabilizes the sports mode shift, but at this point I am just trying stuff. This shift pattern to manual mode, if you disregard the unstable sports mode, is at least consistent with how late VE and VF operated. However going back to Auto/Normal mode is a bit odd, I need to place the shift lever in neutral then back into drive to cancel the manual mode. This is ok when you are stationary, but to do it when you are driving along requires some conscious though, so you don't over rev the engine or put it into reverse, never a good thing. Anyway I have achieved what I was looking for and that is I can now lock the transmission into first gear for those tricky off road situations. ;)
To round off this CAN BUS Ohms chase, just incase someone finds this in 20 years time and wonders what we did for fun when cars ran on petrol and 8 cylinders and toasters and home appliances were electric. I have just installed a second external 120 Ohm resistor in my GMLAN high speed bus and turned off both resistors in the TCM2650, and whilst I am now able to read the required 60 Ohms with the system turned off, unfortunately it did nothing for my unstable sports mode. So no more talk off can resistance its a dead topic.
 

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I have now done around 1700 KLM in the Crewman, with 300 klm, off road, on Sunday in a one day rally. The vehicle is a completely different car to drive, in normal auto mode it just quietly goes about changing gears, as required by the prevailing torque conditions, and except for the change in engine rpm, I do not now the changes are happening, it is also a pleasure to drive on the open road. This was certainly not the case with the 4L65, you knew when it is bashing about between gears trying to find its happy spot. In the 1700klm, which was a mix off city driving, open road driving and the 300 klm off rally trails Sunday, the average fuel usage is around 15.5L/100 KLM. The engine now sits at 1700rpm at 100klm/per hr and I noticed yesterday that where the engine temp use to be 98 to 100 degrees it sat all day yesterday at 88 to 90. I am now taking pre manufacturing orders, but will not proceed unless I get 10 or more, if you are interested please PM me.
 

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Lex

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I have now done around 1700 KLM in the Crewman, with 300 klm, off road, on Sunday in a one day rally. The vehicle is a completely different car to drive, in normal auto mode it just quietly goes about changing gears, as required by the prevailing torque conditions, and except for the change in engine rpm, I do not now the changes are happening, it is also a pleasure to drive on the open road. This was certainly not the case with the 4L65, you knew when it is bashing about between gears trying to find its happy spot. In the 1700klm, which was a mix off city driving, open road driving and the 300 klm off rally trails Sunday, the average fuel usage is around 15.5L/100 KLM. The engine now sits at 1700rpm at 100klm/per hr and I noticed yesterday that where the engine temp use to be 98 to 100 degrees it sat all day yesterday at 88 to 90. I am now taking pre manufacturing orders, but will not proceed unless I get 10 or more, if you are interested please PM me.
Good you have it sorted!
Did you sort the tap shifter out & the b configuration?
What diff ratio did you settle on?

The 6L50 in my vt wagon with the 3.8 ecotec engine is different beast to what it was with the 4L60e.
Nice & quiet. It's a pleasure to drive.

I'll never be going back to the 4L60 again.
 

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Good you have it sorted!
Did you sort the tap shifter out & the b configuration?
What diff ratio did you settle on?

The 6L50 in my vt wagon with the 3.8 ecotec engine is different beast to what it was with the 4L60e.
Nice & quiet. It's a pleasure to drive.

I'll never be going back to the 4L60 again.
Hi Lex I have the tap shift working in manual mode, which functions as you would expect. I still cant get it to a stable state in sports auto mode, I don't know if it is the shifter switch or the Overline controller. I have a hunch that the Overline controller is converting the VF, shifter signal to a GMLAN message suited to a VF. If I could find the GMLAN messages for both the VE and the VF, for sports mode and manual tap shift, I could at least rule that out, but unfortunately this information is not available and the guy who sold me the Overline refuses to answer any off my emails. I have not tried to activate a second configuration at this stage and I have left the diff ratio at 3.46. Regards Clive
 
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