8 days without any postings....and weeks without seeing a ZB on the road

[wetwork65]

I see not much has changed for General Motors.

Watch and listen to what Peter has to say back in 1974 and see if this rings any bells to what we are discussing here.

This is really interesting, paricularly from 13.23 onwards - it is the most telling prediction of Holden's future.
Pity the Torana never fired up the way it could/should have . It could have been more of a long term model, but still would not have fitted today's market, unless it was an SUV. The ZB is also not an SUV.
Buttner at Holden wants us to see them as the SUV and Ute brand. Commodore and Astra are now well recognised.

https://amp.news.com.au/technology/...s/news-story/582edfa831c72cd72f60461cdb80c21c

The marketing boss announced that they are now the challenger and it is "actually" exciting times for them. He spoke only of SUVs. Hmmm.
What will Australia do when we get sick of SUVs?

 

[figjam]

I used to watch ‘Torque’ religiously, and had a lot of respect for Peter Wherrett, as a journo and driver. But he lost a lot of his credibility later, after a DUI and ‘personal’ problems.

He made a lot of good points in that review of the HJ, but my experience with the HJ and the LH are quite different.

I bought a LH Torana SLR 3300, sight unseen, based on the hype and reputation of the LJ.
It was the most uncomfortable, underpowered, ill handling POS that I ever owned. I didn’t like it at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight like it even less now.
After 12 months, I traded it on a HJ Wagon, (fitted with a lot of options, but with an identical drivetrain) and thanks to inflation, got more as trade-in than what I paid for it, (yes, a bit unbelievable, but). I can’t remember what the cost of the HJ was.

The HJ seats suited me, very comfortable …………. non-assisted steering, no problem, ……… handling was far better than the Torana with the GTS wheels and front stabilizer bar ……… build quality and finish was miles ahead of the Torana.
It was well looked after, but time, exposure to all weathers, (no garage), and 300Km killed it about 2005.

So, while I agree with him having a go at GMH about them telling us what cars we should drive, (still happening today) I think he got the HJ v LH wrong way round.

Holden owe a lot to Peter Hanenberger, who 'invented' RTS, even though he was not the suspension honcho at the time, and to his time as boss of Holden when the various incarnations the VT platform appeared, and when Holden were exporting.

 

[tuckerbag]

I used to watch ‘Torque’ religiously, and had a lot of respect for Peter Wherrett, as a journo and driver. But he lost a lot of his credibility later, after a DUI and ‘personal’ problems.

He made a lot of good points in that review of the HJ, but my experience with the HJ and the LH are quite different.

I bought a LH Torana SLR 3300, sight unseen, based on the hype and reputation of the LJ.
It was the most uncomfortable, underpowered, ill handling POS that I ever owned. I didn’t like it at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight like it even less now.
After 12 months, I traded it on a HJ Wagon, (fitted with a lot of options, but with an identical drivetrain) and thanks to inflation, got more as trade-in than what I paid for it, (yes, a bit unbelievable, but). I can’t remember what the cost of the HJ was.

The HJ seats suited me, very comfortable …………. non-assisted steering, no problem, ……… handling was far better than the Torana with the GTS wheels and front stabilizer bar ……… build quality and finish was miles ahead of the Torana.
It was well looked after, but time, exposure to all weathers, (no garage), and 300Km killed it about 2005.

So, while I agree with him having a go at GMH about them telling us what cars we should drive, (still happening today) I think he got the HJ v LH wrong way round.

Holden owe a lot to Peter Hanenberger, who 'invented' RTS, even though he was not the suspension honcho at the time, and to his time as boss of Holden when the various incarnations the VT platform appeared, and when Holden were exporting.

Gordon Roberts (I think) was the engineer responsible for handling/suspension etc in those days. Apparently insisted on engineering in massive understeer thinking it was a safety feature because it made drivers slow down

 

[Badgerdog]

Not many parallels between these old Commodores and the new ZB.
I've driven the new Stinger, the turbo 2.5 liter Mazda 6 and the latest Camry and none come close to the handling of the ZB.

 

[Immortality]

Gordon Roberts (I think) was the engineer responsible for handling/suspension etc in those days. Apparently insisted on engineering in massive understeer thinking it was a safety feature because it made drivers slow down

That's still the accepted balance when it comes to setting up a vehicle for general road use. Understeer is still safer than oversteer it, once a car swaps ends it's all over rover.

These days it's probably not massive understeer but still understeer.

 

[Sabbath']

That's still the accepted balance when it comes to setting up a vehicle for general road use. Understeer is still safer than oversteer it, once a car swaps ends it's all over rover.

These days it's probably not massive understeer but still understeer.

Stability control systems also help to keep a vehicle more neutral too. They know the vehicle needs to be kept going straight and use more than just suspension setups to do so.

 

[wetwork65]

I used to watch ‘Torque’ religiously, and had a lot of respect for Peter Wherrett, as a journo and driver. But he lost a lot of his credibility later, after a DUI and ‘personal’ problems.

He made a lot of good points in that review of the HJ, but my experience with the HJ and the LH are quite different.

I bought a LH Torana SLR 3300, sight unseen, based on the hype and reputation of the LJ.
It was the most uncomfortable, underpowered, ill handling POS that I ever owned. I didn’t like it at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight like it even less now.
After 12 months, I traded it on a HJ Wagon, (fitted with a lot of options, but with an identical drivetrain) and thanks to inflation, got more as trade-in than what I paid for it, (yes, a bit unbelievable, but). I can’t remember what the cost of the HJ was.

The HJ seats suited me, very comfortable …………. non-assisted steering, no problem, ……… handling was far better than the Torana with the GTS wheels and front stabilizer bar ……… build quality and finish was miles ahead of the Torana.
It was well looked after, but time, exposure to all weathers, (no garage), and 300Km killed it about 2005.

So, while I agree with him having a go at GMH about them telling us what cars we should drive, (still happening today) I think he got the HJ v LH wrong way round.

Holden owe a lot to Peter Hanenberger, who 'invented' RTS, even though he was not the suspension honcho at the time, and to his time as boss of Holden when the various incarnations the VT platform appeared, and when Holden were exporting.

I liked the part in the video that Peter said that the 3300 (I think) Torana he was driving had more than enough power for anyone and the V8 is unnecessary. I got the feeling he was saying Holden was irresponsible offering this option. So more than enough is not enough for you?

 

[Immortality]

Stability control systems also help to keep a vehicle more neutral too. They know the vehicle needs to be kept going straight and use more than just suspension setups to do so.

Definitely, I'd expect them to be almost neutral with all the electronic aids they have these days and with RWD becoming much less common that changes the dynamic as well.

 

[Badgerdog]

Took delivery of a brand new 2019 Calais V in rioja red today to replace my previous one.
In the end I stood my ground for a 5 year warranty and they eventually gave in granted that to me.
This one even has two keys and its 2019 GPS map installed, (unlike the last one which came with only one key and no working GPS system).
Fingers and toes crossed I get a better run out of this one.
No better car at this price point in the market in my opinion.

 

[Calaber]

The point that used to disappointment me about traditional Holdens was their lack of any refinement long after other manufacturers had improved their products. Consider the following old tech replacement years.

All synchro standard. 1969
IRS standard 1997
DOHC standard 2004
Column mounted headlight controls 1974
4 wheel discs standard 1988
4sp auto 1986
Properly set up suspension 1976 (LX Sunbird)
IMO, every one of these mods were introduced many years later than they should and could have been. It doesn't say much for Holden's engineers and bean counters in those days.