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AFM L76 lifter rattle when cold WTF?

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by OldDog, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. blackve76

    blackve76 Well-Known Member

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    Our 09 SS AFM has a little rattle on start up, was there from 10000kms when we got it now at 70000 its better. Used to do 150kms a day on the highway to work so put in some 10w60 as I've run in my L98's big mistake made the rattle worse, car is on 5w30 edge now(it only does a 5km trip to work now that we moved).

    Try a good oil a see if that helps 5w30 works for us could depend were you live re temp
     
  2. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    It's only for top security runs, same principle as the cone-of-silence in Get Smart... still being tested, not practical all the time, the industrial-grade noise insulation cloak is fitted only when there's a bit of a hangover.

    Actually is left over from sound proofing the rest of car :yarr:
     
  3. Loaded Dice

    Loaded Dice .... Lets roll.

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    Any details on what you've done there and the outcome? I'd like to make mine a bit quieter on raod.

    /thread hijack
     
  4. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    NP mate I'll start a new thread.

    Here it is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  5. VY'er

    VY'er FluroSSV

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    After lots of thought and ringing around performance shops in Perth I have decided to get a few things done to rectify this lifter rattle in my L98, first thing was to try PI4ATES method he suggested which was to put some high zinc 10w40 engine oil to see if it would help, it did but only to a certain degree. Also the oil which I replaced was sent away for viscosity check to see if any metal shavings where apparent and yes there was, which basically meant the cam needed replacing,this is where the camshaft has shown signs of wear from the metal to metal contact. It can go from bad to worse when the roller wears enough to split in half and leave the now roller-less lifter to dig into the camshaft, this is where the noise goes from chatty parrot to an even worse sound and the repair bill may go from a couple of thousand to a whole new engine according to the shop.

    So now have it booked in for a VCM-21 camshaft, Lunati dual valve springs, retainers, locks, chromoly pushrods, upgraded 3 bolt cam sprocket with ARP cam bolts, water pump and timing cover gaskets. Next I will be changing out the lifters for Morel Tie Bar Lifters, MLS Head Gaskets and ARP head bolts. Then its in for a VCM OTR and tune, all up Im looking at 5K. I could go for just the Morel Tie Bar lifters if the head gaskets and ARP head bolts aren't extremely necessary and save around 1k but am not sure if anyone can enlighten me that would be great.

    The only issue I face atm is having stock heads and cats as well as stock exhaust I would have liked to go the normal route ie full exhaust system otr then cam but I just don't have the cash to do the whole lot in one go I know I am not going to draw anywhere near the power from the stock headers and exhaust after the cam install but that will be on the cards in the next few months. I read that changing the oil pump should be done along with a cam install should I add this to the list?

    Any advice before I bite the bullet would be appreciated.

    P.S. thnx PI4ATE for ur help so far mate.
     
  6. blackve76

    blackve76 Well-Known Member

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    How many km's has car done??

    Engine LS3 crate for $7200 might be a better option

    I've done heads cam in my VE myself and the chain tensioner should be changed to a LS2 item so put that on the shopping list, get arp head bolts for sure(you can reuse). Try and streach for an exhaust otherwise you will need a retune down the track.
     
  7. VY'er

    VY'er FluroSSV

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    Thanks for the advise I will make sure I ask for the tensioner to be done also, exhaust is on the cards but will have to wait a month for that ;( . Update retune isnt too bad I just hope all this will fix my issue it may be costly but I think its gonna be worth it!
     
  8. Major Herbie

    Major Herbie New Member

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    Moved question to new thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  9. bigdaddycool

    bigdaddycool Member

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    My car has the starter lifted rattle depending on if I change it's tune.

    It's caused by two things. The car cooling down too fast and it being overly rich when starting.

    You can 'tune' the issue out more then likely.

    My guess is you had made some sort of modification correct?
     
  10. Queball

    Queball New Member

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    Pretty widespread problem if this thread is anything to go by. What I take from this as a possible purchaser is to avoid L76 and early L77 motors altogether? Does anyone have a pic of where to find the engine build date? I realise this does not necessarily relate to the build date on the ID plate.

    Does this sound reasonable?
     
  11. PIR4TE

    PIR4TE Banned

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    Haha sure sounds reasonable given the content of this thread, however it is ridiculous and incorrect to conclude most Holden fourth generation V8 automatics make more lifter noise and are less reliable than another comparable engine of this class. There is no widespread lifter failure of latter Eatons and certainly zero since the AC Delco lifter update.

    Despite appearances you will gather this thread is not about the early Eaton lifter issue, rather it is a sad lesson but a different story to my experience. With the benefit of having clocked 170,000 hard-earned km on an early L77 (more than an underwriter / accountant reasonably expects from a modern car) having conducted considerable research with a vested interest, I can safely advise you do a site search for concise and specific answers and I would be glad to continue the conversation in another more appropriate technical thread. This is nonetheless a worthy story, unfortunately gives potential owners the wrong impression with the weight of misinformation, apparently.

    In short it boils down to early VIN range well prior to the MY9.5 update.
     
  12. torana355

    torana355 Member

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    My 2011 SSV piston slaps even when hot, it still makes good power and does not use oil so im just going to keep driving it.
     
  13. HEXEM

    HEXEM Member

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    Yes and here we go again.

    My friends December 2013 VF SSV Redline has already had a complete set of lifters and camshaft replaced in February 2014 due to failure and looks like it might need another new set.

    While it is not known how wide spread these issues are, they are well recorded at Holden dealerships across the country. There are 2 issues in this thread one is lifter tick/failure and the other is piston knock on startup (when cold).

    The purpose of this thread is really to advise potential buyers of possible engine issue you 'might' encounter with these engine. I'd love nothing more than to go back to an SSV but just can't go through the **** and Hassel you have to go through with Holden to get it sorted. Spending $50k on one of these vehicles and having it slapping/ticking is just not right.

    Yes I could buy the car and modify the engine in the hope of preventing it but that opens up other issues if and when trying to claim warranty. If you change your cars every few year (3) you'd probably wouldn't give a toss.
     
  14. PCD1965

    PCD1965 New Member

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    Read this thread with interest after posting about my possible lifter noise in the VF section.
    Mines a 2014 Jan build SSV Redline auto ute and listing to the noise video posted by olddog it sounds the same. cold ok but noticeable when hot on passenger side of motor .
    going in to holden next week for a listen
     
  15. OldDog

    OldDog Donating Member

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    Well I'm quite surprised to see this thread still has some legs. I haven't posted here or on the forum at all for a while as life sorta got in the way. However I still have the SSV, which has proved a good car after all the grief early on. It's got 140,000 km's on it now and the new engine has around 100k. Has a few noises on start up but thats the usual piston slap that's to be expected when it has some age on it.

    A few thoughts and observations, looking back;
    The behaviour of your dealer is KEY in this. The Dubbo dealer was in the end, pretty useless. Most of the hard yards were done between myself and Holden, with the dealer sitting in the middle shrugging their shoulders and spouting the usual lines we've all heard. Here's an example of how a dealer can help or make this experience an absolute misery; On Xmas day 2011 I went out to the car and found the battery flat, it was then that we noticed that every now and then the car would stay "energised" for the want of a better word, rather than shut down when the drivers side door is opened, obviously overnight this would flatten the battery. I went to the Dubbo dealer to get this resolved and typically they "couldn't reproduce the fault".
    I'd just moved to Mudgee, and over the road from my house was a guy who used to work for the Mudgee Holden dealer and urged me to go see them. I was at that stage completely frustrated and about to sell the car out of sheer disgust.
    I went into the Mudgee dealer and gruffly asked them if they could help, their immediate response was certainly, that's a common fault $15 part and 20 minutes labour all under warranty and they drove me home! They delivered the car to me that afternoon with a list of 6 other warranty claims overlooked by Dubbo and had the car booked in to have those fixed the following week. Which they duly did. Service as you'd expect. That alone has kept me driving this car still, as well as brilliant attention to detail doing the servicing.
    That said, its time to either trade the car or use it as my work hack and grind it into the ground. I went and looked at an SS ute, and I had a look at a 2012 manual Maloo, when the salesman started it up it started to rattle and my wife and I just walked away. We're died in the wool Holden people but just can't bring ourselves to buy another Holden, after 30 or so years this final one has put paid to my love of the Holden V8...well the modern ones anyway. I'll drive this into the ground and buy the Mrs a Toyota.

    I hope that everyone that had issues found some final resolution :)
     

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