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Air-Con Pressure Issue

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by ciggo, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. ciggo

    ciggo New Member

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    Hi all,

    I've started experiencing a strange issue on my MY14 SS-V Redline in which the air pressure of the aircon drove to almost zero after some running.

    The first time it happened was after about an hour of driving and the second time after about 4 hours of continuous driving.

    I turn the car off for about 5 minutes and turn it back on and it seems to be back to normal.

    To add to the issue there is a noise, almost like a leak sound, that comes out of the right hand vent in the centre.

    Any idea what this issue could be?

    Thanks
     
  2. krusing

    krusing Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the evaporator was frozen,
    so the fan could/was unable to blow any air through it.
    Did you check under the car if any water was draining out, that would be the first sign of it freezing up.
    I had a similar thing happen when driving to Bendigo a little while a go, as I had the fan on low,
    I turned the actual A/C off for a few minutes (with the fan still running) and then the air started coming from the dash vents again, so I put it down to the evaporator was freezing up, I then turned fan up a bit higher with the A/C on, and it didn’t happen again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  3. ciggo

    ciggo New Member

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    Sounds like you could be spot on.

    Didn't check under the car but will do that if it happens again.

    It was 30 degrees outside and I had the AC on 18. Think it would be possible to freeze under those conditions?

    Thanks for your help mate.
     
  4. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ I have a vague recollection there was a service fix to stop evaporator freezing. The service fix was where the evaporator thermistor was unclipped and moved inboard a centimetre or so; job done. Can’t remember which model year this service fix was for :rolleyes:

    As for what conditions an evaporator can freeze, it depends in part on aircon performance and then on air temp, humidity and fan speed. Haven’t looked at VF workshop manual but usually workshop manuals contain charts to determine correct aircon performance which resolves the first part of the equation :cool:

    edited: it was a VE fix, see this post which references this bulletin
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  5. Fu Manchu

    Fu Manchu Well-Known Member

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    You can get a hissing sound when gas is low.

    There’s loads of things going on with ac systems.

    A cheap borescope into the top centre air vent might confirm if the Evaporator freezing up.

    First stop is get an aircon tech to rig up some gauges to it. Check gas amount. Maybe regas with dye to find leaks.
     
  6. Forg

    Forg Well-Known Member

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    This is probably a silly suggestion, but I wasn't there so I don't know the situation ... I don't suppose the aircon had reached the set temp so wasn't doing anything? We usually set the temp to 21, and on those days when it's 21 degrees outside I have to put the window down or take the aircon off Auto & up the fan speed, 'cos it doesn't need to do anything so it doesn't blow any air - and I dislike still air, need to have some breeze. :)
     
  7. HarryHoudini

    HarryHoudini Active Member

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    On that subject what Temp. do you guys run the Aircon on?.I have a 2012 Wagon,i know the Aircon. has too work harder in the Wagon but when i first got it 24 was fine,nice cool cabin Temp. I got it re-gassed last Xmas and the guy said the gas was low but now i have it on 20 and it still seems a bit warm,reluctant to turn it down any lower. TIA
     
  8. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ Since the gas was ‘low’ it had to go somewhere and as aircons are a sealed system did the guy servicing the aircon fix the leak?
     
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  9. HarryHoudini

    HarryHoudini Active Member

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    No,he said that's normal for a 7 year old car,they need re-gassing every 5 years or so.
    He did put the dye in so if it runs low over the next 12 Months he said he'll chase the leak.
     
  10. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ I’ll have to read the service manual as I don’t ever remember seeing or hearing an aircon system needs regassing periodically due to gas loss, only that the filter dryer needs periodic replacement.

    I’ll also see if I can find some aircon performance graphs :)
     
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  11. krusing

    krusing Well-Known Member

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    Re-gassing after 5 years is BS,
    a sealed system NEVER needs re-gassing, that's just spruiking for work.

    The last time I serviced my Wagon, I mentioned in another thread that I removed the front plastic cover from underneath to just check all was ok leading up to Christmas,
    That's when I notice form fluorescent oil, knowing what it was, I cleaned it up then will be able to monitored it.

    Then just before Christmas [Nov & Dec] I was doing a "fair few" county k's around Victoria
    [Mildura x 3, Latrobe Valley x 4, Goulburn Valley, South Gippsland etc etc]
    And I noticed the air con wasn't cold, ie: the output temp was approx. 12 deg,
    so on a 30 deg day, it was cool but not cold, where is should be 4deg,
    recently I checked under the front of the car again, and alas, fluorescent oil again,
    and it appeared coming from the rubber "high pressure" hose at both ends,
    So what it was worth, I purchased a $10 UV torch [from ebay] and upon receiving that, I did my investigation at about 10pm and night,
    and sure enough, the UV light showed up were it was leaking, being at the hose joints on the high pressure side,
    and it also sprayed it around the front of the engine [under the harmonic balancer area] probably with all the wind with in the engine area.
    Being I was still on the road, I got hold of a can of refrigerant and toped it up,
    and it dragged it back down to 4deg output at the top vent with the fan on full, so its nice and cold again, like when I purchased the car in 2013.
    I rang around to see if I could get the hose replaced,
    1 being ENZED Dandenong and Moorabbin, and they dicked me around with quoting varing priced from $170 to $280 they said, I even took the car to show them [to Dandenong] what hose required to be replaced keeping in mind,
    it can be replaced and will be like new they say, but with their time wasting efforts,
    I looked around on eBay, Gumtree, Trading Post, Wreckers, as I wanted to get the right part,
    but I ended up Purchasing a OEM one from Holden for $250 considering you get new Seals at the 4 ends.
    Just need to de-gass it and replace the manifold/hoses, and get re-gas it.
    [Got a quote from the stealer of approx. $1,000, if that is not ripping you off, I dont know what is]

    I have attached a image of the actual new manifold & hoses,
    Old Part # 92269731 New Part # 92288311
    and have indicated where the leaks can be found on the original ones.
    Also pages on Air Con Performance Tests.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  12. Anthony121

    Anthony121 Well-Known Member

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    I had this pipe leak right at the end of my 3 year warranty on my last VF Calais V
     
  13. krusing

    krusing Well-Known Member

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    For what I am hearing from other sources,
    Its fairly common, being it gets pretty hot in the engine bay, especially a V8 as there is not much air space,
    and it is under 160PSI when running, and being climate control, its always running, and the pipe is always under pressure, and the rubber in the crimped area of the fittings will also be soft, from the engine bay temp and the actual temp of the pipe, being the high side and gets very hot.
    Except when its turned off, and the pressures equalize.
     
  14. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    An AC system does require peridodic maintenance. The issue is the receiver/dryers eventually wear out and on occasions can explode sending debris through the compressor. It is not overly common but it does happen. Servicing an AC system is about preventive maintenance not so much about replacing the gas, as in therory it shouldn't be leaking out unless there is a problem.
     
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  15. HarryHoudini

    HarryHoudini Active Member

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  16. krusing

    krusing Well-Known Member

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    Yep, That is correct, ;)
    Only if their is a problem, it needs to be serviced, otherwise it shouldn't need the gas replaced.
     
  17. krusing

    krusing Well-Known Member

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    The link is interesting Reading
    the part about recycling gas's, is not 100% correct,
    Because I rang a couple of Air Con places to see what the cost of de-gassing my car,
    and then re-charging it.
    They wanted to charge me twice
    1. to De-gas it [vac the gas out to a container]
    2. to Re-gas it & change me for the gas that they actually removed.
    So they want to charge me to re-use my gas they removed.
    What a scam.
     
  18. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yes, it’s all about the $$... (agreeing with you here ;) )

    Reality is that it takes effort to suck out the gas, test system vacuum holding ability, find it leaks, find the leak and replace the offending part, retest vacuum holding ability, measure the recovered oil volume, filter the old gas* and squirt it back into your system with any gas top up that may be needed while add the required volume of oil back into the system while also adding some leak detection fluid...

    Much simpler for them to just list two prices without a task breakdown. In any case we hope they do their job correctly :p

    * not sure if the old gas is actually reused or sold to a recycler and new clean gas is instead used.

    ( no disrespect to the good aircon service guys out there ;) they must exist somewhere o_O )
     
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  19. losh1971

    losh1971 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of places don't like doing AC even if they have the gear. Older systems are especially renowned for having problems and it can become a real headache for a business to sort the issues, along with the unhappy customers who blame the workshop for not finding the needle in the haystack. No real money in AC apparently because customers want money back or free repairs when the gas leaks out a year later. $140 for a regas inc filter/dryer is not businesses make big money and rorting customers, just saying.
     
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  20. HarryHoudini

    HarryHoudini Active Member

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    I was told they can't top up a system anymore,original gas is sucked out and new gas pumped in,Aircon guy will probably let us know what happens to the old gas down the track.
    As mentioned in a previous Post,i don't know the exact reason,but the number of Aircon specialists have sure thinned out since the 1990's,there used to be one on every corner in the Gold Coast/Tweed Heads area.
     

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