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alloytec timing chain

Discussion in 'VZ Holden Commodore (2004 - 2006)' started by markovr, Aug 7, 2015.

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  1. Aug 7, 2015 #1
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    I have a rattle (diesel like ) that I have heard twice now and seems to be only when the engine is hot and has been running for about half a hour.Engine has 180 k and has had the dreaded sludge pickup problem and was fixed about 10k ago.
    This noise doesnt seem oil pressure related and and it has no warning lights coming up and drives fine apart from the rattle .
    If you drive it for 15 mins from cold it has no noises . wtf? I know it has a lot of kms on it but it has been looked after and runs fine.
    Any ideas? Is this typical of a stretched timing chain?
    Also if I was to replace the chains what kit is best ? as there are a few to choose from on ebay...some offer cogs ...some dont...some offer aftermarket tensioners ...some factory what is better?
     
    markovr, Aug 7, 2015
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  2. Aug 7, 2015 #2
    redvxr8clubby

    redvxr8clubby Active Member

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    If you do the chain you might consider doing the oil pump as well. There was a thread in the VE section some time ago where the OP had timing chain rattle - replaced the chain, but still had the rattle. Then found out that oil pump can be the problem - replaced the oil pump all good.
     
    redvxr8clubby, Aug 7, 2015
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  3. Aug 8, 2015 #3
    commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    sometimes the pump can be the problem , and not the chain , as above not sure how you'd go about checking that though .
     
    commodore665, Aug 8, 2015
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  4. Aug 8, 2015 #4
    rambunctious

    rambunctious Well-Known Member

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    I have no experience with your specific problem, however, I do have experience buying parts and I would suggest a phone call to Zupps parts at Aspley for a price.

    Talk to Mark, always helpful. 3246 8017

    I have no association with Zupps in any way.
     
    rambunctious, Aug 8, 2015
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  5. Aug 10, 2015 #5
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    Ok took the tappet covers off and found this...top chains no play and tight as with 180kms on engine but this sludge wtf?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I have done the sump pickup about 6 months ago but what do I do with this?
    I have always done oil changes at the manufacturers recommended interval (now i know is too much) but I cant believe this
    Funny thing is the engine runs fine ...hardly a noise normally and no loss of power over normal...just this rattle lately (has happenned only once) and it hasnt again.
    Does the oil drain only to the front to the timing covers so if I if I took the cams out can I scrape this **** off and pick/clean it out and it wont fall down to the sump if I block off the entry?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2015
    markovr, Aug 10, 2015
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  6. Aug 23, 2015 #6
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    ok took the timing cover off and because the heads were sludged up wasnt shocked by what I found
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    cleaned it all up
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    checked out the chain kit options and mace engineering offers a good option with factory chains and tensioners aftermarket guides in their kit and a cheaper new pump made in the us and worth considering ...just wondered if anyone else has use this pump or this kit
     
    markovr, Aug 23, 2015
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  7. Aug 23, 2015 #7
    gossie

    gossie Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what oil/s and viscosity have you been using over you time changing it in that engine? Filter every time as well?
     
    gossie, Aug 23, 2015
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  8. Aug 23, 2015 #8
    commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    I seriously doubt that that has been serviced according log books , looking at it I'd say it has missed a couple .
     
    commodore665, Aug 23, 2015
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  9. Aug 23, 2015 #9
    Benboy

    Benboy Well-Known Member

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    Manufacturer's recommended oil change interval is often inadequate. Try every 6 months or 7,500 - 10,000 km i.e. oil AND filter. Make sure that the oil you use is by reputable manufacturer and the oil type strictly in accordance with Holden's recommendations. You could also consider using an Engine Oil Flush component at EACH oil change.
     
    Benboy, Aug 23, 2015
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  10. Aug 23, 2015 #10
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    I got the car at around 60000 and at that stage it had the service book filled out so it had been followed to the recommended time and was done at a holden dealership and I went with that not knowing what dramas that was the interval was creating....every 150000 and everything was good up to about 175000 but had the oil pickup clog and got to it in time took sump off and cleaned everything and fixed it and thought id do the services to 10000 interval and hoped that would stop the sludge returning. But this time at 184000 ,something has clogged a passage for a tensioner and the chain started rattling but it happenned only once ....no warning lights just a noise.
    Next day it was fine..... noise gone... So for about a week I did short trips and no noise still but finally I decided to take the valve covers off to make a call on going any further ...found this so I pulled it all apart..what a mess. Always did the filter and used genuine oil everytime up to about 2 services ago and changed to nulon 5w-30 synthetic api rated.
    As far as I can tell i didnt do anything wrong to bring this on.
    Has holden altered its service procedure with the vf?
     
    markovr, Aug 23, 2015
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  11. Aug 28, 2015 #11
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    0k all clean ready to start putting new parts back and its a headache working out which timing chain kit to buy.....how much genuine ..how much aftermarket...I would assume the chains would have to be factory items...anyone have any opinions?....or experience.....aftermarket chains made in japan any good? OR BETTER than factory? Its like buying tyres every seller has a version of whats good or not but they are trying to get you to buy their stuff.
     
    markovr, Aug 28, 2015
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  12. Sep 12, 2015 #12
    viccib

    viccib Member

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    to pull the cover off, did you have to pull the motor out to change the timing chain?? thanks
     
    viccib, Sep 12, 2015
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  13. Sep 13, 2015 #13
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    No just take out the fan shroud and there's plenty of room ... But if you were talking about the thermostat housing that's a different story
     
    markovr, Sep 13, 2015
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  14. Oct 2, 2015 #14
    CRAIGVZCALAIS

    CRAIGVZCALAIS Banned

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    Hey markovr!
    So did you work out that it was the gunk and **** that was the cause for the rattle? I just brought my VZ Calais a week ago, test drove it, it was fine, as I got home that night I barely picked up on the rattle. I drove the car all week and I did not hear any rattle until yesterday when I was driving and got stuck in peak hour but this time it was a lot louder so I haven't driven it since. It sounds the same as yours, hot engine, no fault codes or lights.
    Hopefully I can work it out!!!
     
    CRAIGVZCALAIS, Oct 2, 2015
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  15. Oct 5, 2015 #15
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    Due to me being slack and the footy ,the car is still in pieces but I reckon something sludge related had clogged the oil feed to one of the tensioners ... Probably the bottom one ... Funny thing was it happenned only once and drove it for a week or so ... Just short trips but it didn't happen again ... But I thought I'd just take the valve covers off and check out how bad the sludge was .... But before that the filter had plenty of **** in it .
     
    markovr, Oct 5, 2015
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  16. Nov 8, 2015 #16
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    ok got it all back together and started it ok and it took some time to run smooth but went ok but I noticed that when it was running you could hear the odd click from random places under the valve covers but thought nothing of it but after some 10-15 mins running that warmed the engine up ,the odd click transfered into small rattles from under both covers...I hate to say it but the noise is getting to be the same as before I pulled it apart. ..no oil pressure light but I did notice twice the low oil alarm came up and went away.
    if I turn the engine off when it gets the rattle when i switch it back on it goes away for some time......
    could the screen be blocked again?
     
    markovr, Nov 8, 2015
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  17. Nov 8, 2015 #17
    somefool

    somefool Member

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    Could be a something blocking one of the galleries/ outlets and when you turn the engine off its enough for it to back off for a little bit. The screen could be blocked again too by stuff that got dislodged when you were cleaning up the front of the engine. Sucks. Could poke one of those snap-on cameras through the sump drain and see the pickup from there to see if its that, if you can borrow one from somewhere.

    Sounds like a nightmare, i would have pulled the block and sent it to be acid dipped and cleaned. Thats the only sure way to get all the crap out.
     
    somefool, Nov 8, 2015
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  18. Nov 9, 2015 #18
    markovr

    markovr Well-Known Member

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    Thing is it's exactly what was happening before I took it apart this time and similar to what happenned the first time but I wasn't driving it the first time but when it went it gave the dreaded check oil level and audible alarm and I fixed it 6 months ago with the screen clean .... And this time it gave me the alarm.
    Looks like when it restricts the oil pressure first thing to be denied full oil pressure is the overhead stuff.
    Tried diesel in the oil for a short time and it didn't clean it up .... Got a few front end noises in the suspension so at least it gives me an excuse to drop the crossmember again and change a few bits there but I could do without this
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
    markovr, Nov 9, 2015
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  19. Nov 9, 2015 #19
    alloytec sludge

    alloytec sludge Member

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    rattle

    did you remove and check the main bearings mine were stipped from having sludge and the screen blocked that will affect the oil pressure greatly
     
    alloytec sludge, Nov 9, 2015
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  20. Nov 9, 2015 #20
    Capsule

    Capsule Member

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    Maybe the oil pump is stuffed too. Did you change it while changing the chains?
     
    Capsule, Nov 9, 2015
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