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Another use for Air Conditioners?

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by Toms 50th Ani, Dec 1, 2006.

  1. Toms 50th Ani

    Toms 50th Ani New Member

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    Was thinking today about how the outside air temperature can effect the overall performance of an engine, colder the air mixed with the fuel = higher generated horsepower and thought about the possible use of the air-con pumping chilly air straight into the airbox?

    Basiclly I'm not talking about turbo-charged or supercharged setups (although I guess it would work anyway) but for a NA engine and supplying colder air instead of mounting an intercooler.

    Now I'm not very mechanicly minded about cars and how they're all put together, however the curiosity got to me. I currently have a SS CAI kit and K&N filter so the engine is (hopefully) recieving a good flow of air and during the summer season, the current air temp is quite warm.

    How easy (or hard) could it be by using insolated piping to split off from the current A/C pipes and join it to the top of the air-box so it by-passes the air filter thus providing very cold, clean air straight into the engine???

    I guess theres some advantages:
    1. Colder air temperature to engine.
    2. On or off via A/C switch in the car
    3. Adjustable fan speed
    4. Adjustable Air temp

    Disadvantages:
    1. Can't use the heater lol
    If there is a way to make some sort of mechanical flap that opens and closes the A/C pipe to the air filter via a switch, then what other disadvantages could there be?

    I'm sure theres more reasons why it would or won't work but if anyone could shed some light on this idea, it would be awsome.

    cheers
     
  2. defa

    defa New Member

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    i reckon water injection would suit you a lot better.. and much cheaper and easier to hook up. but i do see your point. it is always good coming up with idea such as this one..
     
  3. sircruisealotVS

    sircruisealotVS Well-Known Member

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    alot of people have come up with ideas like this one, trying to use the air-con to supply cold air straight to the engine.
    i think (if i remember correctly) that one guy i know who did this said that the engine didnt react well to the gas used to cool the air from the air-con system (freon? gas or something).
     
  4. defa

    defa New Member

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    but the gas wouldn't be used inside the engine. it would be just like using a water to air intercooler..
     
  5. walesy

    walesy Aint no family cruiser!!!

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    wouldnt the power getting drained from using the a/c counteract the cold air? you would use a shitload of fuel too
     
  6. defa

    defa New Member

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    yeah that is what i reckon too. much better with water injection.. much cheaper and with some setups ya don't even need a water pump, ,ind you. you are better off with a pump..
     
  7. tysons_2001

    tysons_2001 New Member

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    Yeah i reckon the power gained by the colder air wouldnt make up for the power lost due to running the air con pump
     
  8. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    i beleive this has been tried before and the power lost to run the A/C pump is greater then the power gained from the cooler intake charge. maybe try the water injection as suggested but mix it 50:50 water/methanol....... a steam clean with an octane boost to boot. wate injection was first used in spitfire aircraft during WWII(that i know off). has since been used in many applications but it's moslty seen in the turbo charger crowd. the methanol also good for large flames outa the zorst
     
  9. 14secvp

    14secvp New Member

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    Water injection also helps stop detonation and increases combustion pressure.
     
  10. defa

    defa New Member

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    yes it does. i think that was the poiunt of this thread..
     
  11. immortality

    immortality Home of the smoky breakfast Bacon! Staff Member

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    it does indeed. as the water absorbs the heat from the intake charge it turns to steam and you have a cooler intake charge plus a steam cleaned engine. its a wonder that no car manufacturers have it installed as standard as it does actually clean the engine and improve engine life, then again, if they did less people would by new cars.........
     
  12. DannyboyDS

    DannyboyDS Just hand me the pliers.

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    thats one expensive way to improve performance.

    Cost of fuel, cost of regassing the aircon twice in summer, remember that to cool that air almost instantly you would need be pumping a shizzle load of air con gas throughout the system.

    why not use canisters of compressed CO2 gas, just make sure its not running INTO the engine, that would probably stall it. :p

    oh and as stated above, the power loss from the aircon system would be a real kick in the nuts.
     
  13. Jesterarts

    Jesterarts Your freedom ends where mine begins

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    Dumb Question...

    How would the water injection work?

    Does it inject into the engine?

    Sorry, but this is the first i've heard of using water injection to cool a NA engines air...
     
  14. defa

    defa New Member

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    you spray a fine mist of water into your intake.
     
  15. ephect

    ephect Donating Member

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    i cant remember exactly, but i think its every 10deg cooler u get like 1kw.. could end up getting 5-8kw's from it, but dont know how much the compressor uses in terms of kw to drive it..

    I think it would be worth it if you where running a turbo setup, possibly shave off that extra .2 or so from time runs.. *shrug*
     
  16. FCCOOL

    FCCOOL New Member

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    basic water injection consists of a nozzle, pump and tank, with boosted car it runs of a switch that is operated by manifold pressure, in a n/a car it might be something like throttle position.
    There are always plenty of kits in US, search www.ebay.com not ebay.com.au and you should find some, more expensive kits give a variable amount of water as it is needed but they are expensive.
    you proably wont get much advantage in a n/a car, they help ruduce temps of the heated compressed air in a boosted car.
    I know in the 50's water injection was a accessory available for the holden grey motor, it claimed to increase power, economy and decarbon the chambers.
    yella terra make a kit with no pump, I think it sprays in the water the way a spray gun would work.
     
  17. HDT_aero

    HDT_aero Banned

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    ok

    A: An airconditioner does not use gas and you do not have to re gas the aircon so long as the seals are all good and there is no moisture in the system.

    B: a 5kg C02 fire extinguisher will only last for 7 seconds and at around $120+ that makes expensive cooling especially since you cant spray c02 into your intake as the engine wouldnt fire (who knows what other damage it could cause) so you would have to spray the intake somwhere and it will not cool it sfa.
     
  18. SICK SS

    SICK SS 7L 427ci BABY

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    stick with your cai unless ur motor is boosted
     
  19. ozman599

    ozman599 New Member

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  20. danja

    danja Swerves for gay koalas

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    Any science book will tell you that you can't "create" energy, only convert it, so trying to add power to you drive train by taking power from your drive train (via the AC compressor) is going to at best, give you absolutely no increase in fuel efficiency. That would be using an A/C compressor which had 100% efficiency, in reality compressors are not 100% efficient which means you'll be loosing some of your drive train energy via heat and friction etc.

    I haven't put a whole heap of thought into this, but I suspect you might be able to increase engine output by doing this, but you'd pay for it in fuel consumption, and it would probably be far less efficient than using forced induction which is designed for this purpose. (Cold air is essentially a piss-weak method of FI, as its all about increasing air density)
     

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