Another VE Timing Chain Post :/

[mattrid36]

Hey everybody,

I'm just trying to pick some brains here.

I bought a 2009 VE Berlina (3.6L 195kw Alloytec) 5 months ago with 115,000 on the clock. Since I've had it, I've put another 12,000 on. About 3 weeks ago, I noticed an intermittent rattle that sounded suspiciously like a timing chain. However, it generally only rattled normally at around 1400rpm around 60km/h or so. Sometimes it would rattle at other speeds, but not anywhere near as much. Once I heard the noise, I would ease off the throttle and it would go away. The Check Engine light has never come on and previously when I've had it on a diagnostic, it's never thrown any codes.

I took it to Holden to diagnose and they said that it was a stretched timing chain. After quoting me $3500 for the repair and my near cardiac arrest, the dealer and I parted ways.

I managed to get a full timing chain kit with gaskets, seals, tensioners, etc at Veale for around $800 and it took me just under 10 hours to complete. I noticed when I got the cover off that the chain on the LH bank was quite stretched (the old chain was 8-10mm longer than the new chain), but the RH and the lower chains were fine. I replaced all 3 anyway just to be safe. When I put the new kit in, everything seemed tight and ready to go.

I changed the plugs, coil packs and oil while I was at it and put the whole thing back together. I also replaced the serpentine belt tensioner and the Idler pulley.

When I took it for a test today, it seemed great, seemed like it was new again. Then I was driving tonight and I heard the same damn rattle again. This time, it wasn't anywhere near as loud or as frequent, but it's definitely still there. I attached my diagnostic tool after I started hearing the noises again and it still hasn't thrown any codes. My wife thinks I'm just being paranoid, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Does anybody have any idea as to what this noise could be? If it helps, it never makes the noise on start up like I have noticed happens for others and it never does it in neutral. I would take it back to Holden, but I'm sure they'll just try to tell me the new chains are also stretched...

Thanks

 

[commodore665]

What viscosity oil do you use ?

 

[EYY]

Did the kit come with new guides too?

 

[mattrid36]

What viscosity oil do you use ?

5W/30

Did the kit come with new guides too?

Yeah, new guides, 3 tensioners and 3 tensioner gaskets, water pump gasket and all of the oil seals.

 

[jr_]

I bought a 2009 VE Berlina (3.6L 180kw Alloytec)...I took it to Holden to diagnose and they said that it was a stretched timing chain.

holy crap! that sucks, and that's the first 2008-2009 V6 alloytec I've read on JC with a stretched timing chain (diagnose by Holden)...

(fyi: only the SV6, Calais, Statesman & Caprice came with the high out 195kw V6 LY7 alloytec, the Berlina and Omega is on 180kw )

 

[blackve76]

being a 09 i'd doubt its the chain, the fact the noise is still there and no codes.

must be something else

 

[greenacc]

What gearbox is in the car?
Is it always in 4th / topgear when it rattles? Ive got a similar rattle which has been there at least 5 years which I blame on Holdens gutless super green tune which tells the auto to gear up too early causing the engine to labour when you then apply part throttle at such low revs. If I punch the throttle a touch harder it gears down and the rattle goes away.
May also be related to the knock sensors, and the tune running too much advance causing knocking?
Try holding it in sports mode and see if it improves with the higher shift points

 

[redvxr8clubby]

What gearbox is in the car?
Is it always in 4th / topgear when it rattles? Ive got a similar rattle which has been there at least 5 years which I blame on Holdens gutless super green tune which tells the auto to gear up too early causing the engine to labour when you then apply part throttle at such low revs. If I punch the throttle a touch harder it gears down and the rattle goes away.
May also be related to the knock sensors, and the tune running too much advance causing knocking?
Try holding it in sports mode and see if it improves with the higher shift points

If it is actually a knocking noise, what fuel do you run? If it's not premium have you tried using premium for a while? I'm thinking the OP may have jumped the gun replacing the chains with no codes apparent (given every other thread I have read about timing chain issues there were codes). I'm thinking the Holden dealer is guessing given no codes, unless they can do visual check of the chains, which from other threads sounds like a lot of work to be able to even see the chains, so I figure it's most unlikely the dealer can do a visual check. No codes, visual check not practical - sounds like an educated guess on their part and given alloytecs are know for timing chain issues, they may have thought it a safe bet. It would be interesting if the OP had paid them $3500 to have the chains done then next day the noise is back. The OP did say 1400 rpm at 60 km/h so obviously this would be top gear, having a bit of a knocking noise wouldn't be surprising, but the OP has had the car for 5 months and noticed the noise three weeks ago so something does seem to have changed - could it be attributable to warmer weather this time of year affecting mixtures and with the low revs and high gearing at 60km/h a knocking/ rattling noise is heard.

 

[mattrid36]

What gearbox is in the car?
Is it always in 4th / topgear when it rattles? Ive got a similar rattle which has been there at least 5 years which I blame on Holdens gutless super green tune which tells the auto to gear up too early causing the engine to labour when you then apply part throttle at such low revs. If I punch the throttle a touch harder it gears down and the rattle goes away.
May also be related to the knock sensors, and the tune running too much advance causing knocking?
Try holding it in sports mode and see if it improves with the higher shift points

It's got the 4sp auto. I have heard the noise in 3rd, but generally it's always in 4th. I had it out and about today in sports mode and it seemed to help a fair bit, but there was still the occasional noise there. It's always been the case that the more aggressively I drive it, the less frequent the noise is.

If it is actually a knocking noise, what fuel do you run? If it's not premium have you tried using premium for a while? I'm thinking the OP may have jumped the gun replacing the chains with no codes apparent (given every other thread I have read about timing chain issues there were codes). I'm thinking the Holden dealer is guessing given no codes, unless they can do visual check of the chains, which from other threads sounds like a lot of work to be able to even see the chains, so I figure it's most unlikely the dealer can do a visual check. No codes, visual check not practical - sounds like an educated guess on their part and given alloytecs are know for timing chain issues, they may have thought it a safe bet. It would be interesting if the OP had paid them $3500 to have the chains done then next day the noise is back. The OP did say 1400 rpm at 60 km/h so obviously this would be top gear, having a bit of a knocking noise wouldn't be surprising, but the OP has had the car for 5 months and noticed the noise three weeks ago so something does seem to have changed - could it be attributable to warmer weather this time of year affecting mixtures and with the low revs and high gearing at 60km/h a knocking/ rattling noise is heard.

I run ULP 95 and every 4th tank I run 98. I'm always very strict on that. I'm also fanatical about things like servicing, oil changes every 10000km, keeping up with proper maintenance, etc. Holden had the car a whole day to diagnose, so maybe they did have a look, but I doubt it. I wouldn't have paid the $3500 in the first place, so I try not to think of what could have been. Sure, I probably would have been a little "upset" if that was the case...... This whole thing is totally doing my head in. I was just driving it earlier and the check oil light started coming on when I accelerated. I stopped, checked my oil like the light told me to do and it was all still there. I let it sit for 10 minutes and it didn't come on again the rest of the way home. Very strange. Especially as I only did the oil change 3 or so days ago. I'm thinking I need to take that can of petrol I have in my garage, pour it on the bastard and push it's flaming corpse off the cliff down the road...

 

[Sabbath']

Did you replace the lower timing guide? From memory their is some correlation between the bolts for the guide and the oil pump. I'll try and dig out my book and see if it makes any reference to that,