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Are the (MSE/Director) & Magnum the best factory standard performance sedans/utes ever made?

Onlt vote if you've driven an LE and at least a few other marques

  • The e39 M5 is still the benchmark

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    23

monty_vfssv

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All good points Monty. I think the tuneability of our cars has to be one of the key benefits. As Monstar often and correctly points out.
If you're into hard launches and power delivery, look at what FloRider has achieved with some mild mods and a tq converter. Impressive 60ft times and mid 11 second quarters in a +1.8t NA sedan.
Then consider what Monstar has achieved with his Goon. Also the great results EternityDre has been getting at the track.
Impressive examples of what these cars can do, in NA dress code.
While this thread is about factory standard. The comments made about the untappped performance gains are both interesting and valid. Particularly in NA. Because in that space, it would seem our cars are virtually without equal. Credit where it's due...
I think theres alot of hype over the LS3 engine, in stock form its pretty piss poor considering the displacement (408hp or 65hp/Litre). Yes it can be made into a beast (most engines can) but would've been nice to have a bit more character in stock form.

With slicks and a hi stall you would expect a decent 60 foot, cant argue with that.. can't really compare a fully rebuilt L77 to a stock car off the show room floor (even though he likes to)

Fords gen3 5.0L coyote is making good numbers in stock NA form (460hp or 92hp/Litre) shame they put it in a crap chassis. And then theres Chryslers 300 SRT with a 6.4L hemi which is probably the closest car to compare with the commodore in terms of size and old school NA V8.

Happy with the vf2's chassis just not that impressed with its boring stock power.. something im slowly sorting out.
 
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arthurk

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I guess we have drifted from the OP's discussion, but at the end of the day it is horse for courses when it comes to cars. Whether its a Euro/Jap car we are now starting to compare the VF/LE to cars that are not even in the same category! How can we compare the performance of a C class / A class / S3 / S1 / Golf to a large sedan?

Hell driving home tonight the Redline reminded me that I am now driving a much larger car and I can no longer brake as late as I used to with the 911. The ability to turn in faster is gone and the floaty FE3 suspension with a seat that has no support makes it unpleasant to drive in an aggressive manner. Does this make it lesser of a car than the cars listed above? Far from it, its just different! Lets not take away the fact that this is the best Holden ever to be produced locally. Its not perfect but it made decent in roads for its final hurrah.

I was talking with my mate who has a heavily modified VE wagon over the weekend and confessed to him that I have to learn how to drive the VF before I can feel confident on the track again. Its a totally different beast. Now with 422rwkw it makes me think twice about powering out of a corner like I used to.

The difference we have in the VF/LE platform is a cheap base with cheap upgrades to get an amazing car and power. I am not being flippant about the costs, far from it. We talk about C63 that are 3x the price like they are in the same category as the VF. The hot hatches are great but once you hit 100+ watch the grunt of the big V8 real them in on a power circuit.
 

426Cuda

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Different cars for different roads. Despite having more than double of the power, my modified Redline ute was half the fun of my wife's Audi S1 on twisted Kings Highway from Canberra to Bateman's Bay.
:eek::eek::eek:Teddy Bears corner in my Redline: windows down, sunroof open, blip downshift 2, rev, crackle, pop. Raucous V8 cacophony. Gun it, oversteer, correct, up shift to second, hairpin left 25k sign, approaching hard and fast, redline in 2nd, up into 3rd, blip downshift, hard on the brakes, blip downshift, hook left throttle controlled oversteer. Car approaching, low beem, no marsupials, phew, slow down.
Same road. Towing the 5.5m boat, dual axle trailer. Heavy. Overtaking slower cars with ease. Faultless brakes. No fade. Within the rules. No sweat.
Love it. Can't magine having such fun in a quick little go cart. Quicker, on that road? Maybe. Probably. I really wouldn't now. But, if you can have more fun than that, when the roads are clear (night or mid Winter lol), with your pants on, then I need a new sex life. It's like, would I prefer a lap of Bathurst, with Brock in his VP, DJ in his Sierra or Skaife in his R32? Brock in the V8 for me, no question. But, each to their own.;)
 

426Cuda

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I think theres alot of hype over the LS engine, in stock form its pretty piss poor considering the displacement. Yes it can be made into a beast (most engines can) but would've been nice to have a bit more character in stock form.

With slicks and a hi stall you would expect a decent 60 foot, cant argue with that.. can't really compare a fully rebuilt L77 to a stock car off the show room floor (even though he likes to)

Fords gen3 5.0L coyote is making good numbers in stock NA form (460hp??) shame they put it in a crap chassis. And then theres Chryslers 300 SRT with a 6.4L hemi which is probably the closest car to compare with the commodore in terms of size and old school NA V8.

Happy with the vf2's chassis just not that impressed with its boring stock power.. something im slowly sorting out.
Do it! Power is easy to sort, and there's shot loads on tap. The shortcomings of the others are not so easy to overcome...certainly far more expensive, and less rewarding.
 

426Cuda

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I guess we have drifted from the OP's discussion, but at the end of the day it is horse for courses when it comes to cars. Whether its a Euro/Jap car we are now starting to compare the VF/LE to cars that are not even in the same category! How can we compare the performance of a C class / A class / S3 / S1 / Golf to a large sedan?

Hell driving home tonight the Redline reminded me that I am now driving a much larger car and I can no longer brake as late as I used to with the 911. The ability to turn in faster is gone and the floaty FE3 suspension with a seat that has no support makes it unpleasant to drive in an aggressive manner. Does this make it lesser of a car than the cars listed above? Far from it, its just different! Lets not take away the fact that this is the best Holden ever to be produced locally. Its not perfect but it made decent in roads for its final hurrah.

I was talking with my mate who has a heavily modified VE wagon over the weekend and confessed to him that I have to learn how to drive the VF before I can feel confident on the track again. Its a totally different beast. Now with 422rwkw it makes me think twice about powering out of a corner like I used to.

The difference we have in the VF/LE platform is a cheap base with cheap upgrades to get an amazing car and power. I am not being flippant about the costs, far from it. We talk about C63 that are 3x the price like they are in the same category as the VF. The hot hatches are great but once you hit 100+ watch the grunt of the big V8 real them in on a power circuit.
Hear, hear!
 

Sabbath'

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:eek::eek::eek:Teddy Bears corner in my Redline: windows down, sunroof open, blip downshift 2, rev, crackle, pop. Raucous V8 cacophony. Gun it, oversteer, correct, up shift to second, hairpin left 25k sign, approaching hard and fast, redline in 2nd, up into 3rd, blip downshift, hard on the brakes, blip downshift, hook left throttle controlled oversteer. Car approaching, low beem, no marsupials, phew, slow down.
Sounds like a lot of effort to drive around a simple corner.
 

monstar

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.. can't really compare a fully rebuilt L77 to a stock car off the show room floor (even though he likes to)

I take it you think of me quite a bit, let me just say I haven’t pioneered research and development to drag off and bag out $150-$250k Euro schaufensterpuppen!!
Sights are higher than that, three years ago this is the peer group of Naturally Aspirated aspirations I aspired to.
The game has advanced quite a bit since then.
 

monty_vfssv

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I take it you think of me quite a bit, let me just say I haven’t pioneered research and development to drag off and bag out $150-$250k Euro schaufensterpuppen!!
Sights are higher than that, three years ago this is the peer group of Naturally Aspirated aspirations I aspired to.
The game has advanced quite a bit since then.
Yeah mate awsome thread on the black pearl build so far.. would a gen3 coyote crate engine in the black pearl be too unorthodox?? At 92hp/Litre stock as a rock, surely thats got you frothing..
 

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This thread started off asking for opinions on whether the stock LE Commodores match the other stock marque brands on performance and the thread boundaries have changed or morphed into good towing ability, easy to mod, exhaust sound, after sales service, hot hatches and so on and on

Since the death of the Falcon there hasn’t been a 4 door performance vehicle to compare the Commodore with in a ‘bang for buck’ comparison other than the for want of a word the ‘unfashionable’ 300C.

I know it’s a Commodore site and I get that the bulk of views will side with that model but for those who have spent time in or owned some of the marque brands and aren’t just conned by what someone else who hasn’t owned one has to say will know there is a lot more engineering in them than meets the eye and it is the engineering and the tech in these brands that eventually filters down to the cheaper models like the Commodore.

Pull some of these performance Germans apart next to a Commodore or Falcon and you’ll see why they cost more, I won’t say that the high price is actually justified for what you get but unfortunately here in Australia we pay a premium on such cars and if you want to own them then you have to pay.

The marque cars still go on while the V8 locals haven’t survived, it a real shame but it also says where the market has shifted with big N/A on the way out and smaller F/A the new king.

Ford made some stonking engines for their cars and dropped the ball on the creature comforts while Holden let the N/A LS engines date while concentrating right at the death knell on adding tech features.

And we as performance enthusiasts who lapped up these cheap alternatives to the expensive Euro and Jap offerings were the ones who loss out by their demise.

I own far more Holdens than any other brand and I’m a huge fan but I'd like to think I’m not silly and as good as the last LE, SS, SSV and Redline Commodores are they still didn’t stock for stock beat the higher end cars in any area other than price.

I know many owners would like to think otherwise but that the reality.




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