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Are VF's going to be collectables?

J_D 2.0

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They started off at the small car market with the prius...There are other brands that have smaller cars that are electric/hybrids that are coming into the market place...Yes they have moved to larger cars too, but as I have mentioned over and over, they haven't taken off as well as the manufacturers , gov'ts and other motoring bodies would have wished....

I have no idea why they are targeting other markets when the initial market hasn't taken off....I think they originally targeted the families in using these as a primary car for the regular too and froing, but again, it hasn't worked as well as expected....Why ? I don't know....

Will they eventually become popular in this country ? Possibly....When...Who knows....But one thing we could probably guarantee....The longer it takes the longer it will take for prices to jump up massively for our petrol powerered beasts and the more we can enjoy them:)
Hybrids arent in the same market space as EVs. A hybrid is just a range extended ICE vehicle after all. I think they started off with the Prius in the small car segment purely because of the battery and technology limitations at the time.

A lot of those constraints for pure EVs have been solved now and just needs economies of scale to get the cost down. Economies of scale can come with the “second car” market that I’ve mentioned above.
 

Skylarking

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Telsa was the only manufacturer intent on bringing EV's into the main stream...

They started in 2008 by bringing a Roadster to the market, and it was a rather expensive $110K USD sports car which had a 250 mile range.
They followed their success and market float by bringing out the Model S circa 2012. Ut was large sedan with 240 or 300/400 mile range (depending on battery options) and cost satrted at $75K USD. Model X followed in 2015.

The Model 3 was released 2017 and was supposed to be the "everymans" car at S35K USD but that didn't meet its price point goals and was much more expensive.

Prior to Telsa, there was no EV market to speak of... Telsta made the market and offered its IP for the taking... It still leads the market but the big boys are catching up.

However, small cheap EV's simply wont exists for a long long time (think multiple decades) as the battery is still the greatest part of the build cost. Once new solid state battery tech comes in (and the developers have make their money) will will see it trickle down to cheaper cars... But by that time, the cheaper car will have so many self drive and other bundled feature added that any price saving from new tech batteries will be gobbled up these other added features maintaining the high price teh market seems to have acepted...

After all, the end price will always be what the market can bear so cars will never be really cheap again...

And if GM and others have their way, cars will be leased and never again be bought :(

If governments (as they are doing now) ban sales of new ICE vehilces, the next step is banning old ICE vehicles from the roads... And if that eventuates in say 20 years time, when EV's are leased and no longer bought, then collecable cars will be a very small market compared to todays collectable car market (thing the likes of L. Fox and such who have their own car museums) :eek::rolleyes:
 

Subju

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The Model 3 was released 2017 and was supposed to be the "everymans" car at S35K USD but that didn't meet its price point goals and was much more expensive.
Not sure where you get this from, they have been selling the 35k Model 3 for quite a while now. It's also being sold here in Australia as well except that by the time USD conversion, taxes and everything else, it costs 70AUD.

They have also announced they are going to start making a 25USDk version soon as well. I know its probably not going to be popular statement around here but electric is the future and we are talking a copper to fibre like transition. As much as I love my v8, it has already been superseeded. For the average person, they will jump in a model 3 and that is it. The moment they do that, they will want an electric car from that point onwards. It's not just the electric drive train, its the whole system from the ground up that makes it so much better. Current cars are multiple systems from multiple companies that operate different versions of software all meshed together, nothing really speaks to each other. The software setup on Tesla's is seriously underrated.

I seriously suggest everyone book a Tesla test drive, it's the future and you won't realise it till you get in one. Wait until Tesla dominates the ute market, the cybertruck is going to change the game.
 

lmoengnr

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Can anyone say "charging infrastructure"?
 

Subju

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Don't believe the propaganda against Tesla, the reason why so many articles and websites are against it is they don't spend any money on advertising.

Charging infrastructure is already in place, you can drive to just about anywhere and there are plenty of places you can charge at. Not just superchargers but 3rd party electric and these are going to increase exponentially once the supply of electric cars gains momentum. Petrol stations will start getting them as well. You can charge anywhere in a pinch with an extension cable and fully charge it overnight in 9.5 hours.
 

J_D 2.0

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EVs will win the game and if it wasn’t for Tesla we wouldn’t have ever gotten started as the big boys just want to carry on doing what they have always done and not do something new and different.

EVs do have a major advantage of being a lot simpler than ICEs. The only advantage ICEs have is 130 years of perfecting the process and logistics of making them. Once EVs get better at process and logistics to bring costs down ICEs will find it very difficult to compete.
 

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Everyone just looks at Tesla as though they are just a cars with an electric motor instead of a engine. They aren't.

They have completely changed the game and make the next form of cars. They are a computer first and foremost, then everything else is designed to work around the software, not software designed to make various bits of hardware work together.

Tesla isn't really in the car business anymore, they are in the making factories that make cars business now.

The Cybertruck is effectively a single piece of stainless steel, the manufacturing advantages that will provide will mean they simply can't compete. Think how much of an advantage it is to sell a truck that you press out of a single machine (the frame) and then don't have to paint it, whack in a motor, a computer and the wiring.

The 25k car is probably going to work along the same lines, it's these manufacturing advantages as well as well as a massive lead in battery technology that has put them a long way ahead of the curve.
 

shane_3800

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Nope they're buckets of ****.
Many electrical issues and many engine issues with no dealer support in about 8 years.
 

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Not sure where you get this from, they have been selling the 35k Model 3 for quite a while now...
From memory, Musk himself set the $35k price back in early 2017, via a tweet?. It was not something set by the market. But as it worked out, after huge preorders were taken (with $1000 deposits being handed over) only the pricier $44K++ variants were actually being delivered.... because Tesla must prioritise the more profitable models if it was to survive (according to another Musk tweet)... I think some $35K cars started to be dribbled out in low numbers some time in mid/late? 2019? but the push was to upsell people. Those costlier variants were the bulk of deliveries. For the most part, customers were compliant which highlights how Tesla is revered by its fans. However, this was not a criticism of Tesla, just fact AIUI..

Much of this was in the US and other press back in early 2018 so it’s not made up stuff... here’s just one example but you can google and find more 2017-2019 press articles on such.... However, this missed goal is in an of itself is not a black mark against Tesla,... they were pushing the technological and commercial envelope and many customers wanted to be part of it as they see it as a game changer.... The problem is for other manufacturers as Tesla has a leg up on all of them... But like anything time will tell what their ultimate success will be (Tesla and the others)...

As to any Musk tweets and what new $25K price goals he sets, he pushes the envelope and expects breakthroughs will occur... all the luck to Tesla as eventually they will achieve their goals and set the bar for others to follow... They’ll probably achieve their goals late but achieve them they will before others... After all who would have thought a bunch of techno car geeks with little to no motor vehicle mass manufacturing expertise would be the leaders inEV’s :eek: Musk did :cool: Who would have thought one could make a rocket take off and land vertically :eek: Musk did :cool:

I think much will change as EV’s are just so much better for most use cases... and with battery tech improvements it will cover 100% of use cases... but that’s a while away yet... Who knows, Musk will then probably want another challenge and start a flying electric car offshoot of Tesla if he isn’t indicted for securities over tweeting :cool:

Then the next big opportunity with driverless EV’s, which is further away, is that they’ll get to the point where they never crash. At some point it will be that driverless EV’s can be made much much cheaper/simpler body structure as they won’t have to meet crash testing which will become a thing of the past :cool:

In case it’s not clear, I’m a fan of EV’s and those naysayers are much like those old mechanics I knew that thought fuel injection was the worst thing ever done to a car... today’s mechanics will equally hate these fandangled electronic things with wires, computers and nothing that looks like a real motor. Bing it on I say...

Can’t wait for the driverless car trailer I can book via my phone. When it arrives I simply drive the vintage beast onto it and have it take me to the track for a blast of the past :cool:
 

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