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Bad fuel ve 2 Calais v8

adam184

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I had to pump the fuel out of mine to be able to remove the tank unit last year, I connect a 12V battery up to the terminals under the seat
There was a thread I created with wiring connections/colours.

The Second time I just syphoned it.
I tried 4 different methods to siphon from the tank. didntget 1 drop. Removing the tank is not practical. As previously posted hear you need a hoist and have pull apart most of the back part of the car.
I need someone who has the wiring diagram.
thanks
 

adam184

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I’m not totally sure myself either! I recall that I read something about the swirl pot is used to draw fuel from the other side of the tank, and that it used the return fuel to create the venturi effect. I’m not sure if the ‘fuel return’ flow is from the engine/fuel rail or just a ‘return’ within the tank itself.
There is no ’return’ in the ve v8 fuel system. The fuel pump sits in one side of the tank and a pickup runs from the pump to the other side.
 

adam184

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I have tried 4 different methods to siphon the fuel out. Non work at all. I have removed the pump but that only lets me get 1/2 the fuel out.
the fuel system in v8 has no return. It has a pickup from the pump that runs to the other side of the ‘saddle’ tank. Removing it requires a hoist and pulling apart most of theback of the car as previously posted. I need help from someone with the wiring diagram and/or knows if I can run the pump by bridging the relay without it throwing a code.
thanks.
 

Skylarking

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You can buy portable electric fuel transfer pumps for not much coin... remove the vehicles fuel pump and then drop one tube into the far reaches of the tank where there is fuel and turn on your portable fuel transfer pump.

You can also get cheaper manual transfer pumps but they get blaring very quickly...

Still, removing tank so it can be fully flushes, washed and dried is the best approach but is a PITA.
 

adam184

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You can buy portable electric fuel transfer pumps for not much coin... remove the vehicles fuel pump and then drop one tube into the far reaches of the tank where there is fuel and turn on your portable fuel transfer pump.

You can also get cheaper manual transfer pumps but they get blaring very quickly...

Still, removing tank so it can be fully flushes, washed and dried is the best approach but is a PITA.
I have borrowed one. It doesn’t get to the other side of the saddle shaped tank. It’s designed to move fuel from a drum or jerry. Removing the tank in a ve is not an option without a hoist. Drive shaft ,exhaust, and rear suspension need to come out.
 

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doesn’t get to the other side of the saddle shaped tank
I know what's involved in dropping the tank as i have a VF and why i said it's a PITA.... but it's the best solution...

As that's not possible for you, then surely a thin arm can reach somewhat into the tank through the fuel pump opening and push a long hose into the other half of the tank so you can suck out the remaining fuel. Alternatively, you can cut yet another hole in the vehicle floor so you can take out the fuel sender. Then you can pump out any bad fuel from that side of the tank. Removing both sender and pump will allow a better cleaning and inspection of the tank while its still installed within the vehicle.

Commonly, fuel contamination is caused by water and/or particulates as a result of poor fuel handling and/or pump maintenance at the pertol station itself. Another type of fuel contamination is what's known as phase separation which occurs in fuels containin alcohol (E10, E85 blends). Phase separation occurs over time as the fuel sits within the tank (since it continues to absorb water from the air). Less common contaminations are from some chemical inadvertently added to the fuel at the refinery (in one such case, when cleaning agents weren't corectly flushed from refinery equipments, this resulted in a real bad batch of fuel causing millions in damages).

However, without knowing what form of contamination you have suffered, you don't know what damage has occured. Some chemicals may soften the plastics your tank and/or hoses are made of, damage injectors, damage O2 sensors or any other components within the engine that fuel or combustion gasses touch. In such cases your only option could be component replacement.

So just to be sure, it would mean you'd need a sample to send off for analysis which can be expensive in itself. As a minimum, you should pump at least two litres into a large clen and dry coke bottle and let it sit for a day with cap on. Then you can inspect the fluid and see if there are particles (can check if metalic or biological using a magnet) or if there is any stratification of fuel (indicating water? or some other chemical?).

If the sample bottle of fuel looks clean as, your problem could simply be years of using 91 which has formed varnish (which occurs on both metal and plastic tanks and lines), and then using some e10 which will loosen any varnish which makes its way to your injectors and blocks them up. Or if your unlucky it could be some other chemical contamination and much more of a pain to deal with (but i'd think that's be on the news)...

So, once youve flushed the tank, i'd add 10 ltrs of 98 and a bottle of injector cleaner and then disconnect the fuel line from fuel rail and add an extension hose before putting the car into run to flush the line clean for a few seconds. Then i'd pull your injectors and see if they are clean or whether they are rusted looking with bubbly deposits around the injector outlet ports. In any case i'd clean them as below:


Then i'd install injectors and refit fuel line and start the car to see how it idles. If ok then i'd fill up with 10 ltrs of 98 and another bottle of injector cleaner, then go for a 50km drive. If all is ok with no DTC's, i'd fill up with 98 and a bottle of injector cleaner and drive as usuall. When tank is near empty, id replace engine oil and filter before filling up (injector cleaner can shorten engine oil life).
 
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07GTS

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VEGTS BUILT BLOWN E85
u can cut a hole on the other side same flat circle area, i have done it with mine so i can get to both sender units, then u can drain it from each side easy, also can reach in with rag and clean up any left over gunk
 

krusing

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I have borrowed one. It doesn’t get to the other side of the saddle shaped tank. It’s designed to move fuel from a drum or jerry. Removing the tank in a ve is not an option without a hoist. Drive shaft ,exhaust, and rear suspension need to come out.

Tell me about it, Been there done that,
You can do it on the ground, takes about 3 hours to get it out,
A lot of hardware needs to come out, but its not impossible, and you can do it yourself.
I added to a thread on how to pull the tank out, as I have done it twice by my self,

The last time I had an issue, was with the gauge, not displaying correctly, Fill the car up and it indicated 3/4 and it then the tank displays empty just under 3/4 and 1/4 full, and displays a message on the screen and then goes away,
As I SHOULD NOT HAVE PURCHASED A NON GENUINE TANK UNIT,
The seller said it was compatible, and it was in GM Box, Well a box with a GM Part number on it, but I think it was a decoy.


Third time around a I cut a hole on the floor under the back seat on the drivers side,
Again I added to a thread with the how to do it.
 
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krusing

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14a650b8-d0be-4ceb-9764-b1cf958f6e03.jpg


https://www.bunnings.com.au/sandlef...mwzIaTUKngXM_fMhA_hoCahYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


I have one of these, and it doesn't fit in the throat of the filler,
but,
Its ok to remove the remaining fuel when you got the tank unit out.
 

adam184

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I know what's involved in dropping the tank as i have a VF and why i said it's a PITA.... but it's the best solution...

As that's not possible for you, then surely a thin arm can reach somewhat into the tank through the fuel pump opening and push a long hose into the other half of the tank so you can suck out the remaining fuel. Alternatively, you can cut yet another hole in the vehicle floor so you can take out the fuel sender. Then you can pump out any bad fuel from that side of the tank. Removing both sender and pump will allow a better cleaning and inspection of the tank while its still installed within the vehicle.

Commonly, fuel contamination is caused by water and/or particulates as a result of poor fuel handling and/or pump maintenance at the pertol station itself. Another type of fuel contamination is what's known as phase separation which occurs in fuels containin alcohol (E10, E85 blends). Phase separation occurs over time as the fuel sits within the tank (since it continues to absorb water from the air). Less common contaminations are from some chemical inadvertently added to the fuel at the refinery (in one such case, when cleaning agents weren't corectly flushed from refinery equipments, this resulted in a real bad batch of fuel causing millions in damages).

However, without knowing what form of contamination you have suffered, you don't know what damage has occured. Some chemicals may soften the plastics your tank and/or hoses are made of, damage injectors, damage O2 sensors or any other components within the engine that fuel or combustion gasses touch. In such cases your only option could be component replacement.

So just to be sure, it would mean you'd need a sample to send off for analysis which can be expensive in itself. As a minimum, you should pump at least two litres into a large clen and dry coke bottle and let it sit for a day with cap on. Then you can inspect the fluid and see if there are particles (can check if metalic or biological using a magnet) or if there is any stratification of fuel (indicating water? or some other chemical?).

If the sample bottle of fuel looks clean as, your problem could simply be years of using 91 which has formed varnish (which occurs on both metal and plastic tanks and lines), and then using some e10 which will loosen any varnish which makes its way to your injectors and blocks them up. Or if your unlucky it could be some other chemical contamination and much more of a pain to deal with (but i'd think that's be on the news)...

So, once youve flushed the tank, i'd add 10 ltrs of 98 and a bottle of injector cleaner and then disconnect the fuel line from fuel rail and add an extension hose before putting the car into run to flush the line clean for a few seconds. Then i'd pull your injectors and see if they are clean or whether they are rusted looking with bubbly deposits around the injector outlet ports. In any case i'd clean them as below:


Then i'd install injectors and refit fuel line and start the car to see how it idles. If ok then i'd fill up with 10 ltrs of 98 and another bottle of injector cleaner, then go for a 50km drive. If all is ok with no DTC's, i'd fill up with 98 and a bottle of injector cleaner and drive as usuall. When tank is near empty, id replace engine oil and filter before filling up (injector cleaner can shorten engine oil life).
Thanks for that.
I couldn’t get the hose I had across to the other side. I might cut another hole n the other side For the sender unit. The first one came out well.
I had already pulled the injectors and cleaned them andthe rail. It ran well for about 10 min then clagged up again.

this is a pic of the fuel I took out. It looks very dark to me. No visible water but it came out of the top of a jerry I filled from the tank.
5C0074C8-F8BB-4541-9004-25460E2BC555.jpeg

the smoke seems to be just water vapor.
unless someone has a better idea I will cut the other access hole drain it completely and clean as described.
I will post the results.
thanks
 
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