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Block Their Shot

VS 5.0

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Timely article with some interesting stats on WA.

Police hope letters to hoons will reduce road deaths

Grennan, given you live in Glen Waverley, I expect you would be familiar with the Waverley Road hill heading from the Police Academy towards Jells Park. I grew up in the area as a kid and regularly saw police cars parked in people's driveways using the old school amphometer to catch speeders at the bottom of that hill. Their tricks are nothing new.

FWIW, I am not defending how the authorities manage road safety. My point is that everyone has a choice on whether or not they contribute to the treasury.
 

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well, as I've said before it's illegal where I live for speed cameras to be placed on downhill stretches of road or at the bottom of a hill. also, take note that the OP was referring to speed cameras and their effectiveness in australia and our respective laws regarding them and it's clear that NZ has a different approach. maybe your point of view on the matter would be different if your government did things differently.

as for the revenue raising claims, how else do you get the message across to stop speeding and how else would you punish speeders without imposing a cash fine? if it was some kind of other punishment, such as community service or the like instead of a fine to be paid you can bet the claims that speed cameras are "revenue raisers because I got flashed for going a few k's over" would not be thrown about as they are now. it gets thrown about because people want to keep their money and they groan about having to pay up.

I always thought you Aussies had draconian road rules but it seems that when it comes to speed cameras we now take the cake :(
 

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I always thought you Aussies had draconian road rules but it seems that when it comes to speed cameras we now take the cake :(

Australian politicians have always treated the motorist as milk-cows because it was "easy money" through fines, and they could appear to be doing something about the road toll while actually doing very little, (like building expensive new safer roads). There isn't a day that you don't come across some advertising about speeding, yet there are plenty of other offences that can be just as potentially deadly, which don't receive the same level of attention.

I think it's because speeding offences are so easy to detect without actually having to involve police, therefore, speed enforcement is particularly cost effective for governments. There are cameras which detect you disobeying traffic lights, and even cameras that detect you speeding up to beat the red lights at some intersections, in NSW at least.

A few years ago, I think it was an episode of Top Gear where the crew visited Australia to drive some new car interstate. Jeremy Clarkson (I think) commented on the incredible frequency of speed warnings and speed limit signs that occurred along the route and said that Australians appeared to have an obsession with speeding.


Well, not quite, Jeremy. Not all Australians - just their politicians.
 

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Are you able to share a source supporting this fact?

I agree, slow drivers are frustrating and in extreme cases they are a road hazard. However, to police and enforce this there would be a LOT of grey areas and very difficult to take someone driving too slow to court.

Traffic conditions, weather conditions and road conditions could all contribute to someone needing to travel under the speed limit. So where would you draw the line? 10kmph under illegal? Way too many variables that could contribute to a driver needing to travel that much under. 20kmph? Well now we are saying that's it's OK to drive 80kmph in a 100kmph zone which is going to cause traffic issues so what's the point?

With going over the limit, it's more black and with since there are almost no justifiable reasons to travel over the set limit. Easy to enforce.

I don't feel that speed is a killer. And I get very frustrated when I see TAC campaigns or the like claiming that speed is the biggest killer, etc.

Stupid or uneducated drivers who make bad choices are the biggest killer. People are simply either too stupid to drive properly or simply cannot do it. I cannot water ski just the same as some people are literally unable to drive.

The reason I have no issue with speed cameras, is they are a way to identify these drivers on mass and penalise them for their bad driving in general.

Anyway, that's the way I look at it.

I don't have an issue with speed camera's because I find that my mentality towards them is supported by my driving record.

I like to think that I am an above average driver, but that's only because based on observation the 'average' driver in Australia is shockingly bad.

I drive in accordance with the rules as much as I can, I don't drive with my eyes glued to the speedo and am able to generally tell the speed largely through experience.

I haven't had a single driving infringement since about 2007, I haven't had an accident since 2004 and I clock up on average 600-700km a week on suburban, highway and city roads, so drive an average amount.

This is why I struggle to understand why people complain about speed camera's as if you chose to drive in accordance with the rules then there isn't any 'traps' or 'cops out to get me'.

Hell, even when I had the VZ clubby which was a cop magnet I still never got an infringement.

SENSE - The Myth of 'Speed Kills' and the Dangers of Slow Driving...

About halfway down the page this group is aserting that a lower as well as upper limit for speed on a certain road reduces accidents.

And an interesting read out of the UK; http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1730.html
 

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Yeah, when we first got introduced to speed cameras here in NZ they were only used in "speed camera zones" which were based on statistical analysis of accidents or more commonly known as "black spots" They even trialled hidden speed cameras but it was discovered that if the speed camera isn't visible to the motorist then it doesn't actually slow any body down and the hidden camera trail was found to be a failure at reducing speed and the idea was dropped.

A few years later they changed the operation of speed cameras to "Any time, Any where" and that is what we have now, semi-hidden cameras with the lessons learnt in yesteryear (hidden speed camera trials) long forgotten.

The article I linked in another thread has the statistical evidence gathered by the AA that average speeds are down, the number of tickets were coming down which when you think about it makes sense (unfortunately that also means revenue is down) and magically the lower speed tolerance public holidays appeared. In the last 12 months (the first full year of the reduced tolerance weekends/holidays periods which have slowly been extended each time) the number of tickets are suddenly back up again and in a big way.

If average speeds are down then so should be the number of tickets issued and the cops should be happy and congratulate the public for this but instead we get reduced tolerances, more fines and more adverts about "speeding kills". So as you say, we too, the NZ driver are just a cash cow for the NZ government. Sadly, with a 15% jump in the number of deaths on our roads in the last 12 months it seems abundantly clear that speed is no longer the number 1 factor in road deaths in NZ. Not surprisingly the deathly silence from the police says enough. Hopefully they will start to see the pavement from the road and start concentrating on something other than speeding to reduce the road toll here in NZ (not likely though with the heavy investment in the new digital speed cameras they just started rolling out here in NZ late last year).

Just to reinforce the revenue argument, there has been a large push in NZ to have the blood alcohol limit lowered here in NZ as it was one of the highest in the western world (400mg/litre of breath) and with great support from the public too. Late last year the government finally bowed to public pressure and the limit was reduced from 400mg to 250mg/litre of breath however the penalty for the reduced limit is only a fine and 50 demerit points (we have a 100 point system in NZ). So instead of loosing your license and what ever other penalties the courts may throw at you you get a $200 fine and 50 points (up to the old limit). How serious are we really about reducing drink driving (and by virtue the number of deaths) on our roads?
 
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Wonderful bit of technology on free flowing roads. Shame barely any of the cameras I see are on them.

If you can maintain cruise control on Springvale Road which is an 80kmph zone for more than 30 seconds ill give you a medal.

Unless I have to brake, I use cruise control. Accelerate to about 40km/hr and press/twist the resume button.

All we need now is the tech I've seen in some Mercedes to filter down. With it's radar cruise control it will drive in traffic and stop, start, slow down, speed up depending on the traffic around it and never exceed the speed you've set. I just do that manually with the resume button and my break/clutch pedals. You obviously are still in full control at intersections etc.

But there is no need to be constantly watching your speedo, nor is there ever a reason to speed if you're focused on the task at hand - i.e. driving.
 

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I have seen on TV the guy that runs the dog and lemon guide, Clive Mathew-Wilson ( New Zealand based website on safe and unsafe cars on our roads) saying that something like 80% of accidents happen at or under the speed limit but the police ignore this because to police it would require more resources than they can get out of it with ticketing.
 

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Yeah, when we first got introduced to speed cameras here in NZ they were only used in "speed camera zones" which were based on statistical analysis of accidents or more commonly known as "black spots" They even trialled hidden speed cameras but it was discovered that if the speed camera isn't visible to the motorist then it doesn't actually slow any body down and the hidden camera trail was found to be a failure at reducing speed and the idea was dropped.

A few years later they changed the operation of speed cameras to "Any time, Any where" and that is what we have now, semi-hidden cameras with the lessons learnt in yesteryear (hidden speed camera trials) long forgotten.

The article I linked in another thread has the statistical evidence gathered by the AA that average speeds are down, the number of tickets were coming down which when you think about it makes sense (unfortunately that also means revenue is down) and magically the lower speed tolerance public holidays appeared. In the last 12 months (the first full year of the reduced tolerance weekends/holidays periods which have slowly been extended each time) the number of tickets are suddenly back up again and in a big way.

If average speeds are down then so should be the number of tickets issued and the cops should be happy and congratulate the public for this but instead we get reduced tolerances, more fines and more adverts about "speeding kills". So as you say, we too, the NZ driver are just a cash cow for the NZ government. Sadly, with a 15% jump in the number of deaths on our roads in the last 12 months it seems abundantly clear that speed is no longer the number 1 factor in road deaths in NZ. Not surprisingly the deathly silence from the police says enough. Hopefully they will start to see the pavement from the road and start concentrating on something other than speeding to reduce the road toll here in NZ (not likely though with the heavy investment in the new digital speed cameras they just started rolling out here in NZ late last year).

Just to reinforce the revenue argument, there has been a large push in NZ to have the blood alcohol limit lowered here in NZ as it was one of the highest in the western world (400mg/litre of breath) and with great support from the public too. Late last year the government finally bowed to public pressure and the limit was reduced from 400mg to 250mg/litre of breath however the penalty for the reduced limit is only a fine and 50 demerit points (we have a 100 point system in NZ). So instead of loosing your license and what ever other penalties the courts may throw at you you get a $200 fine and 50 points (up to the old limit). How serious are we really about reducing drink driving (and by virtue the number of deaths) on our roads?

I see some such as Ron Mark of NZ First are saying that the 1km tolerance over the break period has been an abject failure by the police. I have heard others (i wont name them because i can't backup as fact what they are saying) claim that the 1km tolerance trumpeted by police over the break period in New Zealand has lead to the record death toll over the festive break because people have been watching their speedos like hawks and not paying attention to what is happening on the road.
 

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I have seen on TV the guy that runs the dog and lemon guide, Clive Mathew-Wilson ( New Zealand based website on safe and unsafe cars on our roads) saying that something like 80% of accidents happen at or under the speed limit but the police ignore this because to police it would require more resources than they can get out of it with ticketing.

That all sounds good until you realise that the same idiot said the reason for the higher road toll this holiday period was because of the cheap petrol.

Sadly it does seem that policing is more about the cost Vs return rather then the result been the primary influence. Speed camera = low operating cost for a very high return.
 

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I see some such as Ron Mark of NZ First are saying that the 1km tolerance over the break period has been an abject failure by the police. I have heard others (i wont name them because i can't backup as fact what they are saying) claim that the 1km tolerance trumpeted by police over the break period in New Zealand has lead to the record death toll over the festive break because people have been watching their speedos like hawks and not paying attention to what is happening on the road.

Yeah, it seems a public backlash is starting and it's been led by Ron Mark, one of the more reasonable politicians in our parliament I think.

The opinion piece I linked earlier in the thread is running at about 99% against this initiative and the comments are most interesting to read...
 
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