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Brake system drain

chrisp

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And there is even less need for big brakes on performance electric cars which can stop on a dime just by using regenerative braking.

Guess performance EV owners are even bigger wankers :p:p:p

It’s probably a bit off topic, iirc, when searching for possible brake pads to suit the Redline Brembos, the Tesla also using the same calipers (and one of the Volvos).
 

KING46Calais V

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TBH I'm not sure , when ever i embark on costly endeavors i'm more relieved that it wasn't worse. When i put the brakes on, maybe i would have noticed more of an improvement if i had decent pads at the time , When i put the cylinder , once again i was happy it wasn't worse but i was probably expecting alot more of a difference , which i don't think there was. I think to notice any difference i would have needed to jump back a forth between 25mm to 27mm to pick it, and if there was any perception of it being better may just have been placebo.
For me it was more about completing the task in full
I know exactly what you mean. Had a few occasions where I have spent money only to go backwards.

These days I'm happy if I can just find all my sockets after a job

Thanks for the reply
 

NJD-1992

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The more interesting issue is what Holden did from a compliance perspective so as to verify the downgrade from 27mm to 25mm is ok (given that when one picks up a 27mm MC from spare parts they are almost certain to get the 25mm calliper). I’d have thought Holden would have needEd to lodge some paperwork with Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, and the Arts when such critical parts are superseded and replaced with different parts, especially when the authorities make our life harder than it needs to be when it comes to brake mods :oops:

Similar vain, was how according to the compliance papers or whatever they are in NSW (Name escapes me, but was in a thread talking about what wheel sizes are technically compliant from a certification perspective) the VF SV6 was only certified with 18 inch and 20 inch wheels. I remember having a browse around there and the only V6 19 inch wheel certification was for Calais and its different suspension tune etc.

That didnt take into account the fact the Employee only Reserve Edition SV6 came with non staggered 19 inch redline wheels, and didnt seem to have an amended compliance certificate (Or whatever it was)

What does that mean in the real world? Probably two fifths of F all, but hey, that's why I love these Forums :)
 

RevNev

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I think to notice any difference i would have needed to jump back a forth between 25mm to 27mm to pick it, and if there was any perception of it being better may just have been placebo.
For me it was more about completing the task in full
Your ideology is correct when fitting Brembo's to include the 27mm master cylinder and replicate Redline fitment. I would normally do the same!

I didn't know about the 27mm master cylinder until there were several mentions of buying one and receiving a 25mm in the box with a 27mm part number. I then checked my Redline ute built 4 weeks prior to factory closure and it had 25mm instead of the 27mm and the anomaly surfaced. It seems HSV never used the 27mm with the 4 piston AP's and then Holden fitting some Redline's with the 25mm randomly mid 2017. I've since found a Redline wagon built July '17 with the 25mm master cylinder also.
 

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Similar vain, was how according to the compliance papers or whatever they are in NSW (Name escapes me, but was in a thread talking about what wheel sizes are technically compliant from a certification perspective) the VF SV6 was only certified with 18 inch and 20 inch wheels. I remember having a browse around there and the only V6 19 inch wheel certification was for Calais and its different suspension tune etc.

That didnt take into account the fact the Employee only Reserve Edition SV6 came with non staggered 19 inch redline wheels, and didnt seem to have an amended compliance certificate (Or whatever it was)

What does that mean in the real world? Probably two fifths of F all, but hey, that's why I love these Forums :)
The Road Vehicle Descriptor is one such compliance document that lists what is standard and optional for each variant sold in our market. It includes stuff like engine and transmission, wheels and tyres, brakes, ride height, brakes, tow bar, etc. But there are a lost of other documents that sit behind this high level doc that go into more detail.

However, that doesn't mean modifying your vehicle is impossible. Wheels and tyres are a well travel path for car guys and it isn5 complex and doesn’t require certification. Other things like brakes require modification certification, even if taking something from HSV and putting it on a Holden, which is frustrating. Why is it like this is because certification is based on model variant and as such a SS variant is different to Redline variant which is different to ClubSport.

Fortunately registration authorities haven’t got all their ducks in a row which gives us some headroom with mods (as they've ignored variant based manufacturer certification).

Having said that, one must remember the problem 4x4 lifted vehicles and 4x4 GVM mods were causing problems for people that made what they thought were good mods in the state but got pulled off the road when holidaying in WA or QLD :eek: That’s hardly two fifths of fcuk all if such happened to you :oops: Supposedly it’s all a problem because of how mods may impact ABS/ESC which never was a concern before this tech comes into play :(

In my mind, logically there isn’t any appreciable difference on public roads, for example between the dynamics of an SS, Redline or Limited edition V8’s even though they don’t all have staggered 20” wheels. Maybe there are some differences at highly illegal speeds one sees on track (though I’m a little sceptical it’d be a big difference). Even though, for example, it’s illegal to replace the standard staggered wheel arrangement my car comes with to that of a symmetrical wheel arrangement of a lesser car.… I can’t legally do it and that’s with wheels which are supposedly an easy car mod. But as the rules say you can’t go skinnier than standard = I’m stuck with staggered arrangement and Holden agrees as they begrudgingly sent to me a letter stating I can’t go symmetrical 19” wheels on my car though they said I can go staggered 19” :mad:

Brakes mods do require certification but many do it without such… guess they trust their insurance company more than I do :oops:
 

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Brakes mods do require certification but many do it without such… guess they trust their insurance company more than I do
Brake mod certification seems to apply in NSW. I don't know about VIC, TAS and the ACT but SA, QLD and WA, you can fit any brake system upgrade factory fitted to a VF Commodore including HSV without certification. You can't remove Brembo factory fitments and downgrade to stock brakes.
 

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Brake mod certification seems to apply in NSW. I don't know about VIC, TAS and the ACT but SA, QLD and WA, you can fit any brake system upgrade factory fitted to a VF Commodore including HSV without certification. You can't remove Brembo factory fitments and downgrade to stock brakes.
VicRoads points to VIS8 which also points to the national standard for modification, VSB14. For brakes it’s section LD subsection 1.1 where it states:

The following modifications may be performed without modification:​
  • Fitting a manufacturer’s optional braking system for the particular make/model; and
  • Fitting of additional or substitute in-line brake booster to pre-ADR 33/35 vehicles
Basically it’s the same problem that has exited for a while in that federal vehicle certification standards are performed on a model variant basis and indeed the RVD specifies what is optional or not for that variant listed on that document… but state rego and federal modification docs haven’t been updated by the authorities to reflect such a variant view and often refer to the older term make/model.

Such can cause the perverse situation that what’s valid today (for example HSV brakes installed on SS which some claim to be of the same model/make and thus a VASS certification free upgrade) may not be valid tomorrow (because HSV /= Holden & SS =/ Redline). Changing interpretation from make/model to a model variant view is a relatively simply administrative step for such the authorities which means VSB14 section 1.1 has a completely different take…

The added absurdity is that NSW RMS references their VSI6 which also references the same VSB14 but the NSW doc talks of mods w.r.t upgrades not requiring certification using LC Torana upgraded to GTR Torana brakes? Yet it’s accepted that NSW is tough on brake upgrades and require certification?

When will it be cleaned up and formalised so we have a consistent documented view, either of the old make/model or newer model variant view, I don’t know. Sadly the current state is that you ring up the engineering section of the rego authorities and you can get conflicting info that doesn’t quite line up with the natural written language of their own docs. And even the VASS certification engineers can have differing views which adds some excitement to the whole PITA process (for what should be a straight forward bolt on change and may be some calibration upgrades)… It’s a little FUBAR :rolleyes::mad:
 

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The added absurdity is that NSW RMS references their VSI6 which also references the same VSB14 but the NSW doc talks of mods w.r.t upgrades not requiring certification using LC Torana upgraded to GTR Torana brakes? Yet it’s accepted that NSW is tough on brake upgrades and require certification?
SA doesn't recognise model variant in conjunction with the LC Torana example, they define it to mean that you can fit any upgraded brake system from a VF Commodore without engineering compliance. Being a federal compliance, a car shouldn't be legal in one state but not another is the stupidity of it.
 
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Skylarking

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SA doesn't recognise model variant in conjunction with the LC Torana example, they define it to mean that you can fit any upgraded brake system from a VF Commodore without engineering compliance. Being a federal compliance, a car shouldn't be legal in one state but not another is the stupidity of it.
From a documantation perspective either does NSW recognise "model variant" but brakes still need certification from what RMS says :eek:

I suspect it's all bureaucratic crud and the autority's employee's power trips rather than documented clarity whichever state you are in :oops:
 
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