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[Alloytec] CAI V6 ( VZ for me )

Discussion in 'V6 Development And Modification' started by MattK, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Thermal Black High Temperature Header Pipe Manifold Exhaust Wrap Roll 2" X 25ft | eBay
    38mm X 45M Aluminum Foil Thermal Reflective Heat Shield Wrap Barrier Tape | eBay
    Auto CAR Exhaust Heat Wrap Thermal Thermo Bandage 48mm X 15M | eBay
    DEI 010102 2" Inch Header Turbo Exhaust Pipe Manifold Heat Temp Thermal Wrap TAN | eBay

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ok;

    First things first : All that warm air !
    I included some pictures of my VZ ( under bonnet ) to show what Im thinking .
    As near as I can see , the way the engine bay is designed , the air induction pipe is getting a lot of warm air blown on it from the radiator . How much heat the pipe absorbs ? I dont know .
    So my thoughts on CAI are :
    The induction pipe may warm incoming air .. The manifold works as a very nice air warmer ( high velocity air slows down upon entering the manifold , lots of surface area to warm air )
    SO ? : How effective can CAI be with so much air warming taking place ?
    I can see a pod filter working only because it removes several changes in direction for incoming air ( Fact air box ) ..

    SO I was wondering , does anyone bother heat shielding the incoming air pipe ? To help keep the air cool , rather than warming it up ?
    Has anyone put a temp probe on the intake pipe ? Or drilled a hole and put a probe in to check the temp of the air ? VS ambient .
    I was just wondering since so many do the CAI mod , ? .

    I went for a drive this morning : About an hour ago ..
    The induction pipe is warm , the top of the airbox is very warm , the bottom of the airbox is cool , and the manifold is hot ..
    SO with fact air induction :
    The top of the Airbox looks to be warming air , the induction pipe , and def the manifold ...
     
  2. Capsule

    Capsule Member

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    Good questions.

    I'm not sure the air actually gets warmer but the MAF is seriously heat soaking so the IAT readings are just crazy high, especially at idle or just after stopping.

    As a matter of facts, I've just constructed a heat shield for my Orssom OTR CAI.

    What I'll describe is for a VE but you can easily apply the same principles of any model.

    I've fitted the MACE 12mm manifold spacer/insulator to keep the manifold as cool as possible and did the heat shield while the gasket maker was drying.

    I've used this product, which is the same used around mufflers on a VE:
    Platinum Heatshield Material HS1S - 700 x 290mm - Supercheap Auto Australia

    It looks very rigid but you'll quickly get used to working with it to get it to the wanted shape (you just have to wear thick gloves, I didn't and my fingers had a thousands small cuts after that)

    This is how it looks on the back on the CAI:
    [​IMG]

    This is how it looks in the engine bay (once the CAI is back in place you can't see anything):
    [​IMG]

    Now the results.

    Before, IAT was at least 10 to 12 degrees above ambient.

    Now it's only 3 degrees above ambient!

    When idling, it could quickly climb to 45 or even 50 degrees with 25 ambient.
    Now it's warming up much slower and will go around 35.

    What's interesting is you don't have to relocate your IAT sensor so you're reading the actual temp of the air that enters the engine (or should I say enters the manifold).
    Since I've fitted the spacers, I've also noticed the engine cover gets hotter than the manifold! I think I will just remove those pieces of crap. I don't really care if the engine looks a bit more messy when I pop up the hood. I drive more than I stare at my engine bay.

    Anyway, yes, heatshielding the intake is effective, but I would carefully choose which material to use.
    It would be interesting (but costy) to test the different materials you've linked and compare them.
     
  3. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    I did the CAI mod on my VS , and since the intake sat ontop the radiator , I thought WTF ?
    What good is a CAI if its being warmed by the radiator ..

    I dont remember how many layers I used , but I used alfoil to insulate the air intake from the radiator .. Ok it looked a little rough , but with the bonnet down , who cares .
    Thing was , it worked ...

    Been thinking about the VZ , and the top of the airbox was very warm , so Im thinking about buying some self adhesive heat shield , and wrapping the top of the airbox ..
    Then wrapping the intake tube .. There is the header wrap ? , or maybe the adhesive tape ? or a combo ?
    The MACE eng spacer may be on the cards as well , possibly the 25mm ...
    Im currently searching the net for suitable products .
     
  4. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Well , I wrapped the induction tube with alfoil .
    4 layers , then wrapped again with bear cloth tape ..
    Will see how it stands up to the under bonnet temps , may need to spend money on heat resistant tape ..
    The Airbox , the top part gets very warm ..
    I ordered some self adhesive insulation material off ebay .. ..
    So hope to insulate the top part of the airbox ...
     
  5. Kiddo

    Kiddo You're serious bro?!

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    No point trying to cool the temps after the MAF has adjusted the timing and fuel for it. Example, if the ECU recognizes air passing at 30C, but after is dropped to 25C, you'll still have fuel and timing at 30C.

    You would need to physically shield the entire system from throttle body to snorkel, as above. Keeping in mind, an OTR would be simpler as by design its more compact. Either way, there would be minimal torque gains, as the standard ECU can only move so far as Holden allowed it.

    Good work in making an assertive attempt!! :) Don't stop!
     
  6. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    ^^ all true , no point in insulating the gains will be minimal if at all
     
  7. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Yes

    A) I dont think it can hurt ...
    B) The manifold itself is a heck of a toaster oven
    C) Plan is to cool the entire induction process , right now I have insulated the induction pipe from the heat coming from the radiator , I dont think shielding it is going to cool the incoming air , just help it be more stable ( Cooler )
    The lid of the Airbox , is where the induction pipe draws air from after it has passed up through the filter , this seems to get very warm . Probably due to its proximity to the Hood , and as we all know - warm air rises . So keeping the top of the airbox cooler will help again in not helping to warm the air ..

    The worst offender is the manifold , so not matter how cool the incoming air charge , it is drawn into a oven . I cant imagine a more efficient way of warming incoming air than the holden manifold . If the Mace engineering spacer makes a large enough difference , then cooler air = denser air = more power = What Im after , better fuel economy ..
    I would love to see some independent dyno results for the Mace product .. As well as fuel figures ..

    Would be nice to dyno a car , then put on the mace spacer and dyno again ... :banstick:
    Anyhow , I have heat shielded the induction pipe , next ill do the top of the airbox ..
    If fuel economy improves .......
     
  8. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Induction pipe insulated :

    So far so good , no sign of burning tape ...
    Remember , this is not about cooling the air
    But rather about not allowing it to warm any further ...
     
  9. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Fuel economy ! ( Trip computer )
    My previous best was 11.71/100
    Its down to 11.31/100
    This is all city driving , and Im not sure you can compare the figures as I have not had the car long enough . But you can certainly compare to your car if you wish .
    I just wanted to make note , so that when the insulation material for the top of the airbox gets here , I can note any improvement .. ( as the top of the airbox does get rather warm )
    Again not about cooling air , but rather about not warming it !
     
  10. commodore665

    commodore665 expat Saffa

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    Mace spacers definitely keep the intake charge cooler from the manifold , I have the 25 mm ones on the SV 6 , and the Mace CAI as well , be aware though that the black engine covers don't fit with the 25 mm insulators . I'm still not sure on the wrap for the intake tube , as when it does get hot , it will keep the heat in as well .
     
  11. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Hmmmm

    Interesting thought ..
    The intake tube is insulated , but dont forget , it has air flowing though it ..
    So if the tube is insulated from the outside , then the greatest influence will be the ambient air temperature flowing through the pipe ..
    A little like home insulation if you will ..
    And dont forget , its all about not heating the air , but trying to maintain as close to ambient as possible ..
    As there is a lot of BAD ( warm ) air flowing through the radiator ( what Im insulating the pipe from ) .

    Anyhow , as I pulled into the driveway this afternoon , 10.91/100 ( City ) as reported by trip computer ( millage ) Fuel = Regular !
    Bare in mind , I dont think insulating the intake pipe is going to hurt in any way what so ever , its not like its going to rob you of power or fuel economy ( So there is no down side )
    It may possibly be a waste of time , but one that wont bite you ... ( Possibly a little like painting a racing stripe on your car = Whats the harm ? )
    Then again , in theory , it should have a positive effect ( How much ? ) Infinitesimal to measurable ?
    I cant say since Im not doing this scientifically ..

    The proper way I guess would be to drive 1000km , see what the AVG fuel economy is , then wrap the induction pipe and drive the 1000km again ..
    Then insulate the airbox and drive another 1000Km ,
    Put on the MACE spacer , drive another 1000km ,

    Seriously , I dont have the scratch to drive 4000km to do it some what scientifically .
    For some one who has had their car for a long while , knows what the car does .. They could try wrapping the induction tube and see what happens ..
    Im in my 4th week of owning this car , so when I saw 10.91/100 pulling into the driveway , yeah ! I really wanted this VZ to do 10L per 100 around town ..
    I will see how low it goes , if it stops dropping . Then insulate the top of the airbox .

    This is a no harm no foul mod ... ( the million $ question is - How well it works - and ATM Im not the one to answer that question )
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  12. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    Ok looks like I bottomed out @ 10.91 / 100 ...
    Lots of stop start driving = 11.11 to 11.21 / 100
    SO I have a base figure to play with , just waiting for the insulation material for the airbox ... Then see what happens ..
     
  13. MattK

    MattK New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Ok , the Airbox Lid has been insulated , dont know how good it is ( ? ) , but it has been done ..
    Im going to do a second wrap on the induction pipe , I have some aluminium insulation tape on the way ...

    I was thinking , why not just make a foam insulation cover for the lid ( ? ) , oh well something to think about for latter on
     

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