Cams and torque myths.

[shane_3800]

Where have you been? The VR was totalled early this year. I now have an L98 manual VE ute. The old ute was way easier to drive than my 6L VE.

You have a bad tune mate.

 

[losh1971]

You have a bad tune mate.

I kinda thought that. I already said mine has been dyno tuned for max HP it would seem and probably not made streetable. But how much it can be improved is yet to be determined and is going to be a ton of money. Had the PO fitted a PD it would have been better from the get go and would make power from light pedal and without the cam hop if you don't rev it enough.

 

[Immortality]

But you arr so wrong because the engine Dyno is a tool.
Just because you don't know how to utilize the tool it doesn't mean others fall short like you.

Engineering is dealing with the measurement equipment you have, tribologists have to deal with this yet the arm chair experts here seem to think they know more.
Sadly the only avaliable tool we have to compare our engines is a super flow water dyno.
So we have to make do with the data and the trend in the data prooves my point.
Engineering as much as it is doing algebra it's also translating data.

Yes the dyno is a tool but you assume it is perfect and for a F1 team it is.

How many cars have you actually tuned? How many dyno's have you operated? or is this all based on your youtube viewing experience?

Am I an expert? No

I do however have real world tuning experience. I actually play with tunes in cars. I've actually run a car up on a dyno and modified the tune to suit.

F1 teams have spent billions of dollars setting up dyno facilities to simulate on track conditions because they are now only allowed minimal on track test days and I bet it is the same with other outfit you mentioned. Simulating a race car on a race track when all factors are know is a lot easier than joe blogs and some random LS combination.

A good example of real world tuning. I changed diff gears in our car. After going from 3.07 to 3.73 gears the car would take more timing because the engine/car acceleration has improved. The engine dyno operator has no idea what the actual engine acceleration rate will be.

It's kinda like the memcal tunes supplied with cam packages from the likes of Crow cams. Most suck and there is a simple reason for that, they have no idea of what the cam will be used in so they make their tunes conservative to save themselves.

Dyno's are a tuning tool but only one of the tools used to achieve max performance. The best way to compare engines is out on the road or race track. Last time I checked we don't race engine dyno's.

 

[shane_3800]

I kinda thought that. I already said mine has been dyno tuned for max HP it would seem and probably not made streetable. But how much it can be improved is yet to be determined and is going to be a ton of money. Had the PO fitted a PD it would have been better from the get go and would make power from light pedal and without the cam hop if you don't rev it enough.

No.
You can't just expect a supercharger will fix a bad tune.

 

[Immortality]

No.
You can't just expect a supercharger will fix a bad tune.

That is not what he said. He said a PD blower would behave better on the street and probably make more power than the current cammed setup he has.

Unfortunately what Losh has isn't that uncommon with cammed LS motors. Workshops whack in a cam, put in a tune (from their library of previously used tunes), run it up on the dyno, fix WOT tuning and call it good. Unfortunately there is a lot more to doing a full tune than a few WOT pulls for the all important dyno print out. A proper tune takes hours of steady state running to hit as many load points as possible to check fuel and timing and then check transient fueling. Then there is cold start and warmup etc.

If you are on stock injectors life isn't to bad but as soon as you change the injectors to suit larger power configurations a lot of that factory data is wrong and you start from scratch if you really want to get it right. Of course you could just leave it to closed loop to clean it all up but that doesn't fix the timing issue because ignition timing changes everywhere when you swap a cam not just at WOT.

 

[Pollushon]

Give me a PD over a cam any day.

I choose both. I'm running BTR3 PD cam 227/[email protected]. We pushed over 400rwKw but it was a pig down low. Adjusted the tune a tad losing 30ish kW peak and she's smooth as silk on the street from idle

No you're incorrect. Wheel Dynos are bragging but engine Dynos are a tool.
How else can we differentiate engines without using an engine Dyno? If there is a better way please let me know. At the moment we only have the yard stick we have we don't have a better yard stick so until we have a better yard stick we have to use the engine Dyno as data.

A dyno is one tool in a toolbox primarily for tuning purposes. Get the best power for the safest stats. A better tool? Hell yeah... a better tool for performance is Sydney raceway - the real world tool

Regardless of a number, the money in your mouth is on the asphalt

 

[losh1971]

What Mort said is what I meant.

Even a set of 3.9s or 3.7s and no cam would have been better than my current cam and tune, and that would have cost half or less than what it cost a PO to fit a cam. Actually a lot less probably because they also upgraded the clutch because it was slipping at WOT under the revs they were testing at....... When I was talking to the PO he said with the new clutch the tuner reckons he could now get a few more KW, for what??? I don't need KW I need driveability around the back streets and in stop, start traffic.

 

[Ginger Beer]

Dynos are good because safety, doing power runs down the main street is problematic, this is where the dyno shines, plus after a build it's handy to do all the initial break in and tuning where you can pickup any leaks, or issues, stop the run, fix the issue, then go again

Road tuning is then good to clean it all up from idle, and coming back to idle, under different loads and conditions, this is where dynos cannot compete, and data logging and tweaking is king

I don't really do any real work myself, apart from driving the tuner around, I just throw some coin in the right direction and magic happens

From my experience dyno numbers are for circle jerks

 

[vc commodore]

No you're incorrect. Wheel Dynos are bragging but engine Dynos are a tool.
How else can we differentiate engines without using an engine Dyno? If there is a better way please let me know. At the moment we only have the yard stick we have we don't have a better yard stick so until we have a better yard stick we have to use the engine Dyno as data.

Dyno figures can be and are fudged....They are performed in a controlled environment...Driving isn't done in a controlled environment...

So to sum up dynos...They are bragging rights and nothing else...And depending on the dyno operator, depends how much bragging you can do

 

[Ginger Beer]

Dyno results are great for marketing

And when it comes to marketing, truths are generally not always a priority, or wanted